TERF ideology vs Race Realism

[Mysterious Milkk]

Lately there’s been a sort of comparison between the two, at least to those who don’t agree whatsoever with whatever TERFs say. TERFs who I’ll say tend to be leftists (usually marxist-Leninists from my experience) deny any beliefs in Race Realism.
I was thinking about it, even if someone believed in both biological determinism of the sexes and race realism they both have nothing in common. There are two sexes and “races” as we know it is socially constructed, what is more than likely the actual race realism is more ethnic realism than race realism because what defines white, black, asian etc. is arbitrary (are aboriginal Australians black? We here call them a different race but black nationalists claim them as their own). My other point is that trans and “cis” beliefs are literally the same shit, trannies do believe in sex biology the only thing is they don’t believe in the determinism part, if they could magically be the same sex 100% down to the bone structure in a poof they’d do it and then accusations of not passing and being trans yadda yadda they’ll defend it using literal biology about how they’re anatomical male/female.

If someone here does believe in sex determinism and race realism how do you even differentiate between the two besides the aforementioned because i’ve mentioned how there’s an entire group out there that does believe in the gender part but not so much the race.

 

[Sqwe-wi_Farmer]

There's more than 2 races kike

 

[Shig O'nella]

I was thinking about it, even if someone believed in both biological determinism of the sexes and race realism they both have nothing in common

Why should they?

If someone here does believe in sex determinism and race realism how do you even differentiate between the two

Why would I?

 

[BirdUp]

kill TERFs

 

[Otis Mallebrok]

I don't know what "race realism is", and the subject does not interest me much. But I know that if brown skinned Ahmed Yusuf claims to be English just because it says so in his passport, it is little different than when Rhys MacKinnon claims to be a woman, just because it says so in his passport. And if Ahmed Yusuf claims the right to stay in England, because he IDENTIFIES as English, it is little different than when Rhys McKinnon claims the right to womens spaces and sports just because he IDENTIFIES as a woman. Self-identification means shit. And legal fictions are exactly that, fictions.

That said, the concept of race and sex are fundamentally different, even if both exist in nature.

 

[Mysterious Milkk]

R

I don't know what "race realism is", and the subject does not interest me much. But I know that if brown skinned Ahmed Yusuf claims to be English just because it says so in his passport, it is little different than when Rhys MacKinnon claims to be a woman, just because it says so in his passport. And if Ahmed Yusuf claims the right to stay in England, because he IDENTIFIES as English, it is little different than when Rhys McKinnon claims the right to womens spaces and sports just because he IDENTIFIES as a woman. Self-identification means shit. And legal fictions are exactly that, fictions.

That said, the concept of race and sex are fundamentally different, even if both exist in nature.

Race and sex could both exist in nature, though race is trickier because racial classifications are literally social constructs. I’m not saying “dark skinned man with afro hair and big nostrils” is white, it’s more like “Roberto De La Paz with light brown hair and amber eyes is considered not white because he is a Spaniard” even though some would believe he is white (he is).

I could believe in the idea that race is real, but the way we classify it is completely arbitrary.

 

[David Brown]

because what defines white, black, asian etc. is arbitrary

What defines colors is arbitrary too. Is the text in the body of this post black?
Is Samuel L. Jackson white?

 

[Mysterious Milkk]

Because white supremacists can’t decide if a Spaniard is white or not. When talking about the wonders of the Spanish empire “based white man” but nowadays it’s like “look at this beaner faggot spic”. You have Amerifags calling Spaniards “POC”

 

[Mysterious Milkk]

What defines colors is arbitrary too. Is the text in the body of this post black?

Tell me why are Indians considered asian in America. Middle Easterns are considered white and Spaniards are considered “Latino, non whites” but Portugese are considered White, but if you’re 1/4th black you’re considered black. Do you get what I mean? It’s sometimes fucking stupid, if people were consistent in race then this wouldn’t be an issue.


And no do not say “because India is an Asia retard” then at that point we should be treating all continents as one monolith race. North Africans are not the same as Sub Saharan Africans, even in Oceania we have the Aboriginals, the Melanesians and the Polynesians all completely different looking people. If you want to be a faggot about it you could compare Europeans (north, southern, eastern)


Btw white, black, asian does not mean skin color

A very simple solution: All Asian Americans include Indians, Central Asians, the Middle East etc. African Americans are to include North Africa and the islands. European Americans is all of Europe. Obviously the Americas being of the New World should be the exception, but we do have Native Americans so they should be considered their own. Oceanic Americans(lol?) should be considered their own.

Latinos should be based off how Spanish, Native or African they are.

 

[David Brown]

Because white supremacists can’t decide if a Spaniard is white or not. When talking about the wonders of the Spanish empire “based white man”

Who are you quoting? Nobody in this thread said that.
I don't care that some people have strange opinions. What does that have to do with anything? Why don't you find a "white supremacist" (whatever that means) and ask them?

Tell me why are Indians considered asian in America.

America is not one person. Some people believe certain things and, get this: some people believe other things.

I'll ask you again: Is Samuel L. Jackson white? Yes or no?

 

[Mysterious Milkk]

Who are you quoting? Nobody in this thread said that.
I don't care that some people have strange opinions. What does that have to do with anything? Why don't you find a "white supremacist" (whatever that means) and ask them?


America is not one person. Some people believe certain things and, get this: some people believe other things.

I'll ask you again: Is Samuel L. Jackson white? Yes or no?

Sorry for the confusion on the first quote you mentioned about the Spanish that was meant to be for you. To answer your question no Samuel L Jackson isn’t white, not just based of skin color but because he clearly is a sub saharan African.
I am not saying white supremacist loosely, anyways I’m digging at those who want a white ethnostate despite disagreeing who is white because wow they’re not a monolith group too

 

[Mysterious Milkk]

Who are you quoting? Nobody in this thread said that.
I don't care that some people have strange opinions. What does that have to do with anything? Why don't you find a "white supremacist" (whatever that means) and ask them?


America is not one person. Some people believe certain things and, get this: some people believe other things.

I'll ask you again: Is Samuel L. Jackson white? Yes or no?

If it were individual opinions who the fuck cares but once the government is putting race boxes and making you tick off which race you are then it stops being an American person or a few people and how the American government *views* you, which would influence how other people view it. Anyways what even is the issue discussing how Americans view race, everyone knows not only that they obsess over race too much but that they’re retarded

 

[FuckMeGentlyWithAChainsaw]

The genetic difference between sexes is a full chromosome, which I would assume is much bigger than between any human races.
Also if humans have fertile offspring it's only ever new males and females, there are no fertile hermaphrodites birthing fertile hermaphrodites.
People of different races on the other hand readily produce fertile mixes and accordingly there are no really "pure" races anyway to compare, making the concept of human races tenious to hold on a biological level.
So I don't the think comparing Race Realists to Terfs makes a lot of sense.

 

[David Brown]

you mentioned about the Spanish that was meant to be for you.

What? I never mentioned a Spaniard anywhere in this thread. Hold on did you mean that it was not meant for me? If so, okay understood.

To answer your question no Samuel L Jackson isn’t white, not just based of skin color but because he clearly is a sub saharan African.

We are in agreement here. Skin color is a good indicator, but of course it is not the whole story.

I am not saying white supremacist loosely, anyways I’m digging at those who want a white ethnostate despite disagreeing who is white because wow they’re not a monolith group too

This is a very disingenuous characterization. I think you are saying white supremacist very loosely. Why is wanting a space for your own people a supremacist ideology? Would you agree that Indian reservations in the USA, which are quite literally ethnostates, are necessarily an injun supremacist phenomenon?

You are being very fast and loose in your characterization of how race is viewed and constituted.

 

[Johan Schmidt]

Race is a shorthand way of collectivising groups of ethnicities, which are demonstrably different from each other. There's a few copes which are born from not understanding how genetics works; the most common of which is 'There are more differences between populations within groups, than there are between ethnic groups!'. Which isn't really true. The kernel of truth that it's bred from, comes from the HGP, which found that there is high diversity within racial groups. Which is true, because the 'black' race covers a landmass near enough the size of Europe, with varied biomes.
But even if the whole statement were true, the issue is that there could very well be greater diversity overall within ethnic groups, than overall between ethnic groups. That wouldn't really mean anything, much in the same way that genetically, you and I, share the same gene that controls for limb development - sans eight nucleotide bases - with a python; and we share the entire body of Hox genes with fruit flies. If we then compare only these genes from only these three species (human, fruit fly, ball python) we would find that between humans and flies there is 0% difference, and between humans and ball pythons there is 4.4% difference.
We don't know the full pipeline of genotype to phenotype for every gene difference, but we do know that among certain clusters of genes, there is extremely high difference between ethnic groups, and extremely low diversity within ethnic groups; and that the reverse is true. We also know that phenotypically there is high diversity between ethnic groups, and low diversity within ethnic groups.

Essentially, race is not a good indicator of anything more than very general clusters of ethnicity.

 

[TruffleSpark]

trannies do believe in sex biology the only thing is they don’t believe in the determinism part

idk how much time you spend on twitter but a lot of trannies there have now reached the point of "biological sex literally isn't real"

 

[Johan Schmidt]

T

idk how much time you spend on twitter but a lot of trannies there have now reached the point of "biological sex literally isn't real"

They truly do believe in the idea of a spegg.

 

[Mysterious Milkk]

What? I never mentioned a Spaniard anywhere in this thread. Hold on did you mean that it was not meant for me? If so, okay understood.



We are in agreement here. Skin color is a good indicator, but of course it is not the whole story.



This is a very disingenuous characterization. I think you are saying white supremacist very loosely. Why is wanting a space for your own people a supremacist ideology? Would you agree that Indian reservations in the USA, which are quite literally ethnostates, are necessarily an injun supremacist phenomenon?

You are being very fast and loose in your characterization of how race is viewed and constituted.

I never said anything about not wanting a white ethnostate, my only belief is that I do not believe it should be shared within members of the same white race. I believe that even amongst ourselves we have divisions and view the idea of a white ethnostate which by the way we don’t even know who is white according to these same people to exist. For example I of of Spanish ancestry, I do not want to see any Britons, French or Germans in my place, as tourists fine but I preferably want only Spanish people (Which has nothing to do with skin or hair/eye color as they all vary differently).

the Irish can come I love them. American white ethnostate enthusiasts don’t view Southern Europeans or even other europeans as white so when they talk about “White ethnostate” they completely exclude us from their so called paradise. The idea of making America an ethnostate entirely is retarded, I actually believe in having a multicultural country as well, and if it happens to be the lingua franca of the world even better, who says we can’t have people of different cultures living together in peace?

Now in Spain for example I do not want the Germans, Irish etc. to come in and un-Spanish the country, She has a lot of history and we don’t need her to be destroyed or changed by some shitskin immigrants as well as other retarded Eurofags

 

[Johan Schmidt]

as tourists fine

Nah, you know that even as tourists, we're rat bastards.
"Can I have...uno beero, and a...casa of chips luv?"

 

[Mysterious Milkk]

Nah, you know that even as tourists, we're rat bastards.
"Can I have...uno beero, and a...casa of chips luv?"

Yeah fuck you Anglos minus the beatles they’re cool, your woman are pretty ugly and you guys produce all the femboys in Europe so massive L.
The only thing I give credit for is that British colonies did way better than Spanish ones