Susie Green & Mermaids UK - "Trans Kid Support Charity", Susie had her underage kid get GRS

They've pretty clearly moved away from supporting their previous trans-activist position of blockers for all as soon as possible, based on this and some other articles they've run on the topic; they aren't anti-trans completely, but they've definitely recognised that transing kids isn't a good look.
It's good that Hannah Barnes is still at Newsnight (Deb Cohen has gone to, I think, ITV). Her position is basically that "we need to make sure we provide the best care to vulnerable children", so not philosophically anti-transgenderism as perhaps most of us are, but clearly very skeptical of pediatric transition following her investigation into GIDS.

It would be one thing if GIDS had been an extremely professional organisation approaching pediatric transition with care and rigour, but in this field dodgy practice and dodgy "treatments" go hand-in-hand.

Apologies for double-posting, but Susie helpfully just reminded me of how based Helen Joyce is:
green_susie100-1661747418617241601.png
@GenderGP, tweet 1661699703136813056 (archive)
Susie Green (@green_susie100) · May 25, 2023 · 2:53 PM UTC
This makes me feel sick. She is talking about my kid. My friends. Those I love. And unfortunately we have a government and regulatory bodies that agree with her. That think this language about vulnerable people is OK. It’s not. Its about genocide. Nauseating. Morally repugnant.

Edit: OpenAI transcript of Helen Joyce:
Helen Joyce dijo:
We can't win this by saying, you know, there's 60 x million people in this country and we've got to persuade all of them or a great majority of them. We've got to get through to the decision makers.

And in the meantime, while we're trying to get through to the decision makers, we have to try to limit the harm. And that means reducing or keeping down the number of people who transition. And that's for two reasons.

One of them is that every one of those people is a person who's been damaged. But the second one is every one of those people is basically, you know, a huge problem to a sane world.

Like if you've got people, whether they're transitioned, whether they're happily transitioned, whether they're unhappily transitioned, whether they're de-transitioned, if you've got people who've dissociated from their sex in some way, every one of those people is someone who needs special accommodation in a sane world where we re-acknowledge the truth of sex.

And I mean, the people who've been damaged by it, the children who've been put through this, those people deserve every accommodation we can possibly make, but every one of them is a difficulty.

You know, I mean, I know that sounds heartless. I'm trying to say exactly the opposite of sounding heartless. I'm saying every one of those people for 50, 60, 70 years is going to need things that the rest of us just don't need because the rest of us are just our sex. So the fewer of those people there are, the better in the sane world that I hope we will reach.

Imagine deliberately stunting the growth of your son with puberty blockers and cross-sex hormones, having his penis and testicles cut off and a hole lined with his colon made into his lower abdomen (in Thailand on his 16th birthday!), and then getting mad at the person who describes this as "damage" and says we should provide the people subjected to this with "every accommodation". Helen Joyce wasn't the one who turned Jack Green into a lifelong medical patient.

Susie's also got a post on the GenderGP blog complaining about Kishwer Falkner, the chair of the Equality and Human Rights Commission: Susie Green responds to the recent coverage of the allegations made against the EHRC and Baroness Faulkner (archive).
Susie Green dijo:
At GenderGP, we wholeheartedly believe that transgender and gender diverse people, including young people, are deserving of respect and personal autonomy, including access to gender affirming healthcare as and when they need it. To be free from attempts to coerce them to change their gender identity, and to be free to self determination of who they are.

Our position is one of celebration and recognition of the joy of trans lives.

We have been deeply concerned regarding the actions of the government and the EHRC regarding the attempts to roll back or block trans rights across many platforms including healthcare, conversion therapy protection, self determination, education, and most recently, the attempt to add a definition of legal sex that will damage protections for transgender people irrevocably.

The narrative behind these actions is deeply concerning and fundamentally flawed. It is based on an attempt to generate a culture war, blatant fear mongering that has no basis in truth, and is essentially victimisation for the purpose of deferring attention from those who should be standing up for the most vulnerable in society, not attacking them.

Where are the senior leaders who are meant to stand for good? For equality? To prevent prejudice and discrimination? We call on you to stand for those who need you, and to protect rather than persecute trans people of all ages.

Because have no doubt, your actions, or inactions, are being seen.


Most right minded members of our society support transgender and gender diverse people. They have no issue with them being allowed to simply get on with their leaves, without fear. Just like everyone else. It’s that simple.

You need to decide if the legacy you want to be remembered for is one of hate.

“the attempt to add a definition of legal sex that will damage protections for transgender people irrevocably” :story:

I guess when you've chosen to live in a fantasy world for 25 years, it's easy to convince yourself of anything. To be clear, the notion of "legal sex" was introduced by the Gender Recognition Act 2004. The EHRC has suggested that the Equality Act 2010 be amended to clarify that its protected characteristic of "sex" refers solely to biological sex. No changes would be made to the protected characteristic of "gender reassignment", so trans-identified people would not lose any protections.

What would happen is that trans-identified men would lose access to single-sex services for actual women, because of the current muddle in law that allows TIM Gender Recognition Certificate holders to be considered women (the already existing concept of legal sex), because the EqA 2010 is not clear on the matter, and providers face severe criminal penalties if they attempt to find out if a person holds a GRC.

It would also apply protections against sex and pregnancy/maternity discrimination to trans-identified females with a GRC, which they do not currently have (as they are "men"). But who cares about them bitches amirit?
 
Última edición por un moderador:
Why do they keep saying "joy"? What is with them and that word?
It feels vaguely religious or pseudoscientific to me. Joy To The World and all that. The first I saw of it was when Guillaume Labelle changed the title of one of his comics to "The World Needs More Trans Joy" though I suspect that's because it was previously called "The World Needs More Trans Cuties" and then there was that Nonceflix film that made the word "cuties" even more stomach-churning than it already was. Then there were articles about Ellen Page showing "trans joy" while sobbing her eyes out and looking thoroughly miserable and scared on Oprah. I guess since "trans" means "pretends to be" or "not", then that would track. It is everywhere now isn't it, I suppose "brave and stunning" got memed on too much so they gave it up.
 
Why do they keep saying "joy"? What is with them and that word?
It is everywhere now isn't it, I suppose "brave and stunning" got memed on too much so they gave it up.
I wonder if it's because they're unable to express concretely the benefits of transition (beyond "give me these drugs or I'll kill myself"). Socially difficult to admit you get a sexual release, and so some non-specific "joy" it is.

Susie Green had a meltdown on Twitter last night after people started quote-tweeting her attack on Helen Joyce
Apologies for double-posting, but Susie helpfully just reminded me of how based Helen Joyce is:

Tweets included below for laughs, but in summary it went like this:

Helen Joyce: These people are so divorced from their sexed bodies that they will need specialist care for decades.
Susie Green: GENOCIDE! YOU MAKE ME SICK!
People on twitter: Not really genocide is it. You castrated your son on his 16th birthday, and now he needs specialist medical care for the rest of his life.
Susie Green: WHY ARE YOU SO OBSESSED WITH MY DAUGHTER'S PRIVATE PARTS. GET A LIFE. YOU ARE CREEPY AS FUCK.
susie-green-creepy.png

IMG_3331.jpgIMG_3334.jpgIMG_3332.jpgIMG_3330.jpgIMG_3329.jpgIMG_3328.jpgIMG_3327.jpgIMG_3324.jpgIMG_3322.jpgIMG_3323.jpgIMG_3320.jpgIMG_3321.jpg

Jack got involved in this one (then Susie retweeted him):
IMG_3325.jpg IMG_3326.jpg
"Mummy they don't know how to spell it's autocorrect!"
@green_susie100, tweet 1661829563402297348 (archive)

Susie mentions that Jack told her off for mentioning his age (he's 30 this year; thanks Susie for narrowing his DOB down by saying he's currently 29). But she didn't bother deleting the tweets.
susie-green-jack-age.png
@green_susie100, tweet 1661799552792363027 (archive)
@green_susie100, tweet 1661798416832253954 (archive)
@green_susie100, tweet 1661797307673706513 (archive)

Then Jack refers to his colongina as a "Prada pussy" and muses about starting an OnlyFans to sell pictures of his groin armpit:
IMG_3336.jpg
@JackiePieCrusts, tweet 1661803886888321040 (archive)

For old time's sake, here's that video of Susie Green and Jack's gran laughing on national television about how Jack had a micropenis because of the puberty blockers she'd put him on:
 
I wonder if it's because they're unable to express concretely the benefits of transition (beyond "give me these drugs or I'll kill myself"). Socially difficult to admit you get a sexual release, and so some non-specific "joy" it is.
From looking around, I see they have a lot of difficulty articulating what it actually means, even to one another. It's anything from a synonym for "euphoria", to a whole quasi-philosophical framework that centres around "being seen" as their "authentic self", and "reclaiming girlhood". No matter how they describe it, it always seems to come down to the enforced participation of others in their fetishistic behaviour, taking on the same function as "pride" for the more aggressive elements of the gay community. In essence, it's an excuse to take part in overtly sexual activities in public, while claiming a veneer of innocence for the behaviour.
 
So when I saw and then posted about this:
Susie Green had a meltdown on Twitter last night
I did wonder if Susie was drunk. Usually she doesn't get into too many fights on Twitter, and there are plenty of people saying the same stuff she replied to at any time she cared to wade in.

What might provoke Susie to get more belligerent than usual online? Well, there is that outstanding FOI request to the Tavistock for emails to and from Susie Green between 2014 and 2018. The Tavistock originally claimed it didn't hold any such emails(!), then the Information Commissioner ordered them to stop being silly and turn them over by May 5.

May 5 came and went, and nothing. But now:
sg-facebook.png
(3) Susie Green - Hi all, I got a delightful email this morning, one… | Facebook | Ghostarchive (archive)
Susie Green dijo:
Hi all,

I got a delightful email this morning, one I am sure that lots of you would be interested to know about. It’s from the Telegraph and is regarding a proposed article. The journalist was asking questions about Mermaids and my relationship with the Tavistock Gender Identity Service over the years. I had a deadline of 5pm, so here we go.

I have taken each question and answered below so hopefully, what I say will be reflected in the actual news piece when it is published.

But let’s be honest, I am not holding my breath on that expectation. That’s why I decided to publish this openly so everyone can see what I actually wrote in response to the questions, regardless of what they publish.

The Telegraph really doesn't have a history of standing up for trans people, especially trans kids and trans women, so maybe I am being cynical but I don’t expect the article to be either supportive or kind.

I also want to make an ongoing promise to all those families and young people out there who know that I will fight to my last breath to make things better for trans kids, young people and their families.

Including calling out the disgraceful provision of healthcare in this country and the clear roll back of rights that is being attempted.

This is alongside the nastiness of a media that takes no responsibility for the harm caused by its vicious attacks, despite clear correlation between negative media and hate crimes rising. In time we will look back and consider the harm caused, and heave a sigh of relief that those times are now past.

For now, we keep refusing to bow to prejudice and hate, and I will never stop standing up for trans and gender diverse people and their families, including those that I love who are also members of the community.

Here is the email!

Journalist: I am writing a story for the Daily Telegraph on the basis of the documents that have been released by the Tavistock's FOI team on the relationship between the trust employees and Mermaids.

The documents reveal a number of things, including that you were involved in the redraft of the clinic's service specification which came into force in 2016.
https://www.england.nhs.uk/…/gender-development-service-chi…, includes a lot more details on the use of medical interventions than the previous specification, which was shared as part of the meeting and therefore part of the FOI.

Me: Yes, I absolutely was, and it’s not a secret. My participation in the stakeholder group was clearly noted in the service specification when it was released. I applied to be a stakeholder for the review, as the CEO of the largest UK (and probably European) charity to support transgender children, young people and their families. I represented the lived experience of thousands of young people and their families. The same kind of experience I brought to the Children’s Chapter of the recognised authoritative global guidance for the treatment of transgender people of all ages, the World Professional Association of Transgender Healthcare, version 8 of the Standards of Care.
And your point is?

Journalist: The 2016 service specification, which is still available on the NHS website
It includes for the first time that children under the age of 12 can be treated with hormone blockers, stating "that hormone blockers will now be considered for any children under the age of 12 if they are in established puberty".

Me: Yes, I was very pleased that GIDS removed an arbitrary age range, and instead agreed to look at each individual young person and their unique circumstances. It was a welcome change, and one that adhered to international best practice.

Journalist: The FOI also shows the close relationship between the Tavistock and Mermaids, including that you had a direct line to Polly Carmichael, then director of the clinic, and was able to complain about referrals that were not accepted and refer those whose GPs refused.

Me: Again, why wouldn’t the CEO of the largest UK (and probably European) charity to support transgender children, young people and their families be in touch with the Director of the ONLY NHS service that supported them. Mermaids and the Tavistock have thousands of service users in common. I am fairly certain that in other areas of NHS care that there are relationships between the service provider and charities that support the same demographic. I remember talking to the Autistic Society CEO about exactly this in the past. It’s kind of the norm.

And if you checked, then you would see that referrals could be made by any youth group supporting trans gender young people, as well as schools, social workers, and a myriad of other referral pathways. So, again, your point is?

Journalist: Mermaids was involved in at least two studies that the Tavistock conducted. In 2015 you sat on an “advisory group” for the research which was aimed to “inform provision of services for children and young people with GID”.

Me: Yes, why wouldn’t we be involved? Mermaids did and still does represent thousands of trans and gender diverse young people and their families. Stakeholder engagement is a staple of good research. Why wouldn’t they want to know how our (often joint) service users felt?

Journalist: In 2018 you were asked by Dr Carmichael for Mermaids to be "involved" in the NIHR Logic study.
You were also involved in drafting questionnaires that the clinic used with patients and FAQs for families.

Me: Same answer as above. Why wouldn’t we?

Journalist: In light of this, I would be grateful if you could answer the following -
What was the full extent of your contribution to the redraft?

Me: Same as every other stakeholder I suspect. There were a few of us, if you check. I represented the voices of those that could not be in the room. I am proud of that and will always do my best to do this.

Journalist: Do you have any response to the allegation that you had undue influence over the service and were pushing for medicalisation of children?

Me: Undue influence? I wish. I have watched families being failed time and again by the services that should have supported and protected them. If I had undue influence the service would be a very different one to what is experienced in reality.

Gender affirming care for trans youth is recognised by healthcare professionals WORLDWIDE as safe, effective and even life saving for trans youth.

As the parent of a trans child (now thankfully a thriving adult) I have dedicated the past two decades to understanding the challenges in this area. During this time, I have not only campaigned for my own child, in order to get her the care she desperately needed, but I have also supported thousands of families. This experience has made me a subject matter expert.

It is in this capacity as a subject matter expert that I have been invited to represent other parents and their children by various bodies including the Tavistock. As noted above, I also supported WPATH (the World Professional Association of Transgender Health) in their development of the 8th edition of the Standards of Care.

It is important to note that the voices of young people and their parents, which are an essential part of the conversation, are often ignored.

Gender dysphoria can be crippling; it can cause untold distress to sufferers and their families. There are medical protocols which can be transformative and my role as an advocate is twofold:

To help those families who are struggling and who feel they need to access this care to navigate the associated challenges.

To help medical bodies to understand the challenges from the perspective of the families impacted.

Keep an eye out for the actual article. I will be.

And on Twitter:
sg-telegraph-twitter.png
@green_susie100, tweet 1662125801444192256 (archive)
Susie Green (@green_susie100) · May 26, 2023 · 3:57 PM UTC
@Telegraph thank you for asking me to respond to your questions regarding your upcoming article about Mermaids, Tavistock GIDS and my involvement with the service. I have responded to the journalist but here are my answers for transparency https://www.facebook.com/1584620955...RPwRou1VeALk4zNBBCk4GVwG4Kf1291Y7vMUVC1l/?d=n

Susie Green (@green_susie100) · May 26, 2023 · 4:01 PM UTC
And if you are interested, here is the link to the GenderGP blog too. You are so very welcome.

Her employer, Singapore private health company GenderGP, also tweeted a link to a separate statement by Susie Green on their website:
gendergp-telegraph-twitter.png
@GenderGP, tweet 1662126648139890689 (archive)
GenderGP (@GenderGP) · May 26, 2023 · 4:00 PM UTC
The @Telegraph are going to publish an article about the Tavistock and Mermaids.
They asked @green_susie100 some questions, but we didn't want another news outlet misrepresenting the trans community again. We're making our statement on our terms 🏳️‍⚧️

And the statement on the GenderGP website itself. Statement by Susie Green on The Telegraph’s proposed piece regarding the Tavistock and Mermaids (archive)
Susie Green dijo:
I am the extremely proud ex-CEO of Mermaids – a charity that has helped thousands of young transgender people and their families in the UK and beyond. My simple mission with Mermaids was to make sure that every gender incongruent child, and their family, could live a life free from discrimination or pain. That has not changed and never will.

The UK is failing trans people of all ages, and those who are prejudiced are being given a platform to air views that are harmful, hateful and extremely dangerous.

The media complicity in this is shameful. Stories appear daily that spread misinformation and lies, regardless of the impact on the vulnerable young people at the heart of this matter.

I have been approached for comment by The Daily Telegraph on a piece they are publishing on the Tavistock and Mermaids, and I do not trust that they will accurately portray my view, so I am sharing my answers to the questions HERE.

GIDS has come under criticism for the service they have provided for transgender children. Over 8,000 young people are stuck on a waiting list with no hope of any kind of care, whilst talk of new services does not seem to be resulting in any meaningful change.

However, there have been many cases where young people have received excellent support from some of the clinicians at GIDS and I was then, and am now, more than happy to work collaboratively with the NHS to provide holistic care. Of course public and independent charities and support groups work with NHS services to support patients, why ever would they not?

In my work with GenderGP, I now have the privilege to be part of the medical care of transgender youth. This includes well established clinical protocols for medical intervention that saves lives.

  • Puberty blockers when puberty is underway – whatever age that may be
  • Gender-affirming hormones when the young person is ready to start puberty – whatever that age may be
  • Gender-affirming surgery whenever the best time is for that individual
  • Correction of gender on legal documentations such as passports

I am immensely proud of my life’s work supporting and advocating for transgender young people and I will not rest until they have the same opportunities that all children and young people deserve because it is their simple human right.

If you read the Daily Telegraph article, which I guess will not be kind and supportive of trans young people and their right to autonomy of their own bodies, please be aware that the reality is very different to what is being portrayed. Think about the young people who will suffer as a result of yet more misinformation and prejudice peddled by a media obsessed with pulling down trans people, especially trans women and youth. A media that is wilfully negligent and deliberately hostile, regardless of the harm caused.

As I have said in my response to The Telegraph, in time we will look back and consider the harm caused, and heave a sigh of relief that those times are now past. For now, we keep refusing to bow to prejudice and hate, and I will never stop standing up for trans and gender diverse people and their families, including those that I love who are also members of the community.

All my love to every one of you.

Susie xx

She was given a deadline of 5pm, which means it's almost certainly going to be in Saturday's Telegraph. Keep your eyes peeled!

Edit: The Tavistock Trust publishes FOI responses publicly, but so far it doesn't appear to have gone up there. It may be listed under an obscure name so do look if you're inclined to!
 
Última edición:
From looking around, I see they have a lot of difficulty articulating what it actually means, even to one another. It's anything from a synonym for "euphoria", to a whole quasi-philosophical framework that centres around "being seen" as their "authentic self", and "reclaiming girlhood". No matter how they describe it, it always seems to come down to the enforced participation of others in their fetishistic behaviour, taking on the same function as "pride" for the more aggressive elements of the gay community. In essence, it's an excuse to take part in overtly sexual activities in public, while claiming a veneer of innocence for the behaviour.
Ironically, that just sounds like the actual definition of validation, specifically, validation seeking — doing things that will show off how trans they are so that others will reassure them that yes, they are very feminine/masculine and very brave and we all approve of them and like them very much.
 
Regarding the joy thing, when I hear the word "joy" I usually picture moments of exceptional good-feeling. Heightened reactions to positive events. You rarely hear them say "trans happiness." Happiness I associate with a general state of well being. Contentment. Troons seem to trade the ability to feel that low-key buzz of good feelings for a lot of big, quick dopamine hits, with the chasms between filled with despair or numbness.
 
The bit where she off-hand mentions talking to the CEO of the Autistic Society is really sinister. It sounds like they just ran into each other because they were in charities that meddle in healthcare settings, but it's a weird one to mention. She knows it's disproportionately autistic kids getting drugged and cut up by her mad cult, and she knows that's what a lot of the criticism has been. Is she flexing that even the autism charities are captured?
 
Susie mentions that Jack told her off for mentioning his age (he's 30 this year; thanks Susie for narrowing his DOB down by saying he's currently 29). But she didn't bother deleting the tweets.
Jack Green’s date of birth is July 16 1993:
IMG_3349.jpeg
(web.archive.org, archive.ph)

Found through this interesting article on 4th Wave Now, where it’s made clear that Susie Green took Jack to Thailand for vaginoplasty surgery in the 180 days between the announcement that the age limit would be 18 and that limit actually coming into force.
(4thwavenow.com, archive.ph)
 
Susie Green took Jack to Thailand for vaginoplasty surgery in the 180 days between the announcement that the age limit would be 18 and that limit actually coming into force.
So the popular legend that the Thai government strengthened the law in response to Jack's castration is false.
 
The article she mentioned on her Twitter dropped, and it doesn't paint a very nice picture:



Trans lobby group Mermaids helped NHS plan treatment for children​


Released documents show how closely the Tavistock gender clinic worked with campaigner Susie Green


A trans lobby group helped to draft NHS plans for treating children questioning their gender, The Telegraph can disclose.
Susie Green, then chairman of the charity Mermaids, was part of a task group reviewing services at the Tavistock and Portman NHS Foundation trans clinic.
The service specification, which outlines treatment for children, included details on how “hormone blockers will now be considered for any children under 12”. The relationship between Mermaids and senior NHS employees is laid bare for the first time in documents seen by The Telegraph.
The Tavistock claimed that it did not have emails or minutes of meetings with Ms Green but after the information regulator threatened court action, it released more than 300 pages.
They show that Ms Green had a direct line to Dr Polly Carmichael, Tavistock’s director, and demanded to be regarded as a professional so she could refer children for treatment when their GPs refused. Ms Green, who has no known formal medical training, held an advisory role on two of the studies that the clinic was involved in on the long-term effect of gender identity.
The service specification, which is still available on the NHS England website, was due to be replaced in 2020 but was put on hold when the Government ordered the independent Cass Review into the clinic.

The Tavistock said: “Like many NHS services, GIDS [gender identity development service] works with a range of third-sector patient support groups and charities that have different views about how the service can improve.”
Mermaids said its “primary focus is to support the mental and physical wellbeing of trans and non-binary young people throughout the UK”.
Ms Green said it was “not a secret” that she was involved in the service specification”.
An NHS spokesman said: “We have started implementing advice from Dr Cass and we have held a public consultation on a new interim service specification, which will be published in the coming weeks.”

'The Tavistock were really in thrall to these activists'​

They are the documents that the NHS Tavistock gender clinic claimed did not exist. More than 300 pages of emails and minutes that lay bare for the first time the extent of Mermaids’ involvement in England’s only clinic for transgender children.
The controversial transgender charity has long been named by some whistleblowers as one of the reasons why the Tavistock lost its way, with claims that activists pressured staff to prescribe potentially life-altering drugs.
Now The Telegraph can reveal how Susie Green, then chairman of Mermaids, had a direct line to the clinic’s director Dr Polly Carmichael and was able to make referrals even when a child’s GP repeatedly refused.
The documents lay bare the depth of her involvement in the service, including helping to redraft the service specification and advising on a number of trials designed to inform the way they treated young patients.


The Tavistock and Portman NHS Trust had originally refused to release the details of the meetings between 2014 and 2018, relying on an exemption under Freedom of Information law which said it would have a “disproportionate or unjustified level of disruption, irritation or distress”.
When the Information Commissioner’s Office (ICO) asked them to justify that refusal, the Trust withdrew it and said that following “an extensive search of emails … the Trust does not hold the requested information”.
The ICO said that “on the balance of probabilities” it did hold the information and threatened to refer them to the High Court unless they complied with the request from a parent. The Tavistock has now released 322 pages of communications between 2014 and 2018.
They include emails between Dr Carmichael, who still works at the Tavistock, and Ms Green, who has left Mermaids and now works for an online GP which prescribes puberty blockers. In one exchange from 2016, Ms Green contacted the head of the service to question the decision of staff to refuse a referral she had made.

Upset not to be seen as a professional​

Ms Green, who has no known medical training, said that she was told “that the referral was not validated or risk-assessed by a professional” and that is why it was rejected.
She added: “I can only assume from this statement that I am not seen as a professional? I am now very confused, as my understanding was that your service would accept referrals from Mermaids, but this statement appears to suggest the opposite….
“If you do NOT accept referrals from Mermaids due to the fact that I am not a professional I would like to know the reasoning behind this? Referral by a non-healthcare professional is acceptable from schools, social services etc, and my understanding has been that Mermaids referrals were accepted.
“Your admin person made it clear that immediate action was needed or this referral would be refused, so can I ask for a level of urgency to be applied to dealing with this issue?”
Dr Carmichael replied: “We do accept referrals from third sector groups and I know that you have helpfully sent in referrals in the past. This continues to be the case. Third sector groups often play a vital role in supporting young people and their families and we greatly value their involvement.”

Referrals 'unsupported by their GP'​

Ms Green sent referrals for young people who were “unsupported by their GP” and in one case she sent the referral noting that the GP “has consistently refused to refer”.
The documents show that as early as 2014 she was involved in the “redraft of the service specification” for the NHS’s gender identity development service (GIDs) for children. She was one of the 10 people who attended a meeting.
Others include Dr Carmichael, who chaired the session, Rob Senior, the Trust’s medical director, Prof Gary Butler, a University College London Hospital consultant who is now the clinical lead for the children’s gender clinic, and Bernard Reed, the founder of the campaign group the Gender Identity Research and Education Society.
The minutes show they agreed that they would act as a “task and finish work group” and that “the content of the discussions were expected to remain within the group”.
They noted the initial findings of “research into the age for hypothalamic blocker treatment” which “suggest that the blocker could be prescribed from early puberty”.
The Tavistock has not provided minutes relating to any further meetings of the group, despite notes stating that they would meet two to three times and share details of their review. As a result, Ms Green’s contributions remain unclear.

Greater emphasis on medical treatment​

A new service specification was published by NHS England in 2016, which placed greater emphasis on medical treatment for children.
The new specification said for the first time “that hormone blockers will now be considered for any children under the age of 12 if they are in established puberty”.
It also updated the “informed consent” section to state that: “Age alone does not determine capacity to give consent. If it is concluded that a client has sufficient autonomy and understanding of what is to be offered, plus other key eligibility and readiness criteria have been met, they can consent to treatment.”
The involvement with the service specification came as Mermaids were putting pressure on the Tavistock to lower the age for cross-sex hormones to 14, as Dr Carmichael revealed in an interview at the time.
The charity was also calling for a reduction of time that teenagers had to spend on puberty blockers before they were prescribed cross-sex hormones.
In one email chain Ms Green was involved in, her fellow campaigner Mr Reed questioned if there “are proposals to speed up” the process. He noted that children had to be on puberty blockers for six months to a year before being given cross-sex hormones, which they had to wait until they were 16 to access.
In the response in November 2016 Sally Hodges, one of the Trust’s directors, said that “the situation is rapidly changing” as the service had received more money and “Polly Carmichael is in touch with Susie to ensure that you have the most accurate and up-to-date information”.

Gender reassignment at 16​

Ms Green, who now works for Gender GP, an online service which prescribes cross sex hormones, had taken her own child – who was born male – to the US for puberty blockers before their 16th birthday. On their 16th birthday she took them to Thailand for cross-sex surgery.
In one exchange she sought “clarity” from Dr Carmichael on whether the Tavistock would treat children whose parents had sought hormone blockers or cross-sex hormones privately either because of waiting lists or because the drugs were not prescribed on the NHS to under-16s.
“This would be a huge weight off parents’ minds,” she wrote. “Many want to access blockers privately for their children due to the distress caused by ongoing pubertal changes and the huge wait to be seen and assessed, but are then caught in a position of having to fund blockers indefinitely themselves.”
Dr Carmichael replied that she was “very sorry to hear that there has been confusion” and said that “individual circumstances vary widely and so it would be a case-by-case basis”.
She said if the child was already seeing an endocrinologist through the Tavistock they would be removed from their care if they started getting drugs privately, though could still have therapy. But she added that patients “may choose at a later date to be referred to the endocrine clinic, if for example they started cross-sex hormone treatment outside the service at an earlier age than the service offers”.

Charity boss invited to take part in research​

In 2018, Dr Carmichael emailed Ms Green again to invite her to take part in research which was supported by the National Institute for Health Research (NIHR). She wrote: “We are in the process of submitting an application to NIHR to follow younger service users. It would be great if Mermaids would be involved.”
Ms Green replied that she would be “delighted to look at working with you on the NIHR application and delivery”.
The study looking at the development of gender identity in children aged 3-14 started in 2019 and it was hoped that it would “inform health and education providers”.
Stephanie Davies-Arie, founder of Transgender Trend, said: “The Tavistock were really in thrall to these activists. They were ideologically captured.”
Ms Davies-Arie, who campaigns for evidence-based healthcare, said that she had first contacted the Tavistock in 2016 amid concerns about the treatment they were offering and was told that they would welcome her input as they were keen to hear from different voices.
However, when she emailed Dr Carmichael with concerns, she got no response.
Ms Green said that it was “not a secret” that she was involved in the service specification and she applied to be involved “as the CEO of the largest UK (and probably European) charity to support transgender children, young people and their families”.
She said that she was “pleased” that the new specification “removed an arbitrary age range” for hormone blockers and agreed to consider them for children under 12.
 
Jesus fuck. No wonder she was on the sauce the other night. What a narcissist too, thinking she knows better than all the doctors and demanding the right to refer patients.
 
However, when she emailed Dr Carmichael with concerns, she got no response.
I'm only 1/2 of the way through Time To Think, but Carmichael's portrait is pretty damning. The impression I'm getting from the book is that she's not driven by gender ideology zealotry the way the true believers are, she's one of the camp followers who's doing what the trendy gender cultists demand, motivated by not getting side-eyed at conferences and self-indulging in the fawning, cooing "caring", "kind", "compassionate" narcissism of progressives toward their pet victim class of the moment. She's a very dangerous person to have in that kind of position, and her lack of leadership and inability to entertain self-doubt destroyed hundreds of children's lives.
From Chapter 17:
"How raising of concerns would be taken as personal criticism, and how she had witnessed a somewhat unconventional management style – something others have spoken of too – whereby members of the Executive could be in tears or ‘shouting at each other in meetings’.5 ‘Thinking’ in GIDS, she said, was often only ‘performative’."
I can't believe she was left in charge, unless she's being left in place as the sacrificial goat they can feed to the angry mob when this shit really hits the fan. Having typed that, yeah, that's probably why they left her in place. That she's not smart enough to quit and gtfo of the UK says it all.

**Carmichael is a bit OT, but I don't think Time To Think should have it's own thread, it's too intertwined with Susie Green and her thread's side-characters.
 
I'm only 1/2 of the way through Time To Think, but Carmichael's portrait is pretty damning. The impression I'm getting from the book is that she's not driven by gender ideology zealotry the way the true believers are, she's one of the camp followers who's doing what the trendy gender cultists demand
Polly Carmichael is a difficult one to work out. There's plenty to suggest, as you say, that she was driven by factors other than "true belief". But Time to Think also contains (not sure at what point) descriptions of her ability to inspire loyalty in subordinates, coupled with "this made Polly cry" (not paraphrasing!) when physicians disagreed with GIDS's approach.

In any case, it was clearly a dysfunctional dynamic that should have been broken up. Cults of personality are only ever detrimental to public services, cultivating loyalty to the individual rather than the (democratically decided) mission. (Edit: yes, obviously, "democratically decided" typically at several removes. cf Robert Moses for an excellent example.)
 
Polly Carmichael is a difficult one to work out. There's plenty to suggest, as you say, that she was driven by factors other than "true belief". But Time to Think also contains (not sure at what point) descriptions of her ability to inspire loyalty in subordinates, coupled with "this made Polly cry" (not paraphrasing!) when physicians disagreed with GIDS's approach.

In any case, it was clearly a dysfunctional dynamic that should have been broken up. Cults of personality are only ever detrimental to public services, cultivating loyalty to the individual rather than the (democratically decided) mission. (Edit: yes, obviously, "democratically decided" typically at several removes. cf Robert Moses for an excellent example.)
It's in the Conclusion (76%), according to Calibre search:
"GIDS has not been well led.19 Those at the very top were all highly experienced clinicians, with impressive credentials. And they did not have an easy task. They faced criticism from all quarters, and their work became increasingly politicised. But what should have been professional became personal. Indeed, staff were encouraged to think this way – that they were a family. Director of GIDS Polly Carmichael confirmed this to the Tavistock’s medical director in 2018, telling him that the GIDS team was ‘very close knit, very committed… it has been like a family’.20 And it did feel like that to many. When people did challenge, it was taken very badly, Matt Bristow says, ‘as a personal affront rather than people raising legitimate professional concerns’. He and others recount how executive members of staff would become tearful when criticisms of the service were raised. It would then be made known among the team that ‘this has made Polly cry’, Bristow says. ‘I don’t think that’s appropriate as a management style.’"
And now I'm MOTI and I need to go clean my apt to calm down. This is why I'm only halfway through, I read a few dozen pages and have to put it down.
 
Fines are insufficient. Resignations and then being rehired by a replacement organization doing the same work is not sufficient. I want to see jail time for the people responsible.
Anyone know enough about UK law to determine whether Susie would be liable for prosecution for unauthorized practice of medicine? In the US, she probably would be:


"In general, a person practices medicine when he or she tries to diagnose or cure an illness or injury, prescribes drugs, performs surgery, or claims he or she is a doctor."
 
Here are the full emails. I've just started on them, and there are even emails about which prison trannies convicted of violent crimes should be in. Which to my little brain seems to have fuck all to do with both the NHS and little boys who like playing with dolls.
Happy reading.
 

Archivos adjuntos

Atrás
Top Abajo