Culture AP: In Israel, disposable plastics trigger culture war, test PM - Israel's new government is in the process of repealing a new tax on single-use plastics. Ultra-Orthodox Jews, who have large families and use large quantities of disposable cups, plates and cutlery, say the tax unfairly targeted them.

In Israel, disposable plastics trigger culture war, test PM
Associated Press (archive.ph)
By Ilan Ben Zion
2023-01-30 14:28:05GMT

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An ultra-Orthodox Jewish man buys disposable plastic dishes in Jerusalem's Mea Shearim neighborhood, Friday, Jan. 20, 2023. (AP Photo/Oded Balilty)

JERUSALEM (AP) — On Idit Silman’s first day as Israel’s new environmental protection minister, she handed out soft drinks in disposable plastic cups to hospital patients.

The gesture held deep symbolic meaning in Israel, where soft drinks and single-use cups, plates and cutlery have become weapons in a culture war between the country’s secular Jewish majority and the smaller but politically powerful religious minority.

For much of the public, a tax imposed last year on plastic goods seemed like a straightforward way to cut down on the use of items that are major sources of pollution. But many ultra-Orthodox Jews saw the extra cost as an assault on a way of life that relies on the convenience of disposable goods to ease the challenges of managing their large families.

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s government, the most right-wing in Israel’s history, relies heavily on ultra-Orthodox parties and has moved quickly to remove the tax on plastics. On Sunday, his Cabinet voted to repeal the tax, sending the matter to the full parliament for what is expected to be final approval.

“We promised and we delivered,” said Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich, leader of the Religious Zionism Party. “The fight against the cost of living is a fight we all are waging.”

In 2021, when Netanyahu and his religious allies were in the opposition, then-Prime Minister Naftali Bennett’s government authorized a tax on highly sugary drinks as a health measure to curb rising obesity rates and diabetes, and the tax on single-use plastics as a means of fighting a plague of plastic pollution. The tax levied 11 shekels per kilogram ($1.5 per pound) on single-use plastic goods, effectively doubling the market price.

Repealing those taxes were key demands of Netanyahu’s ultra-Orthodox allies, who made them a rallying cry ahead of November’s parliamentary election. Another coalition deal between Netanyahu and his ultra-Orthodox allies would effectively eliminate a refundable deposit on plastic bottles imposed a year ago.

The United Nations Environment Program has called plastic waste “one of the biggest environmental scourges of our time,” and says the equivalent of a garbage truck-full is dumped into the ocean each minute. Plastics can take centuries to degrade, cause extensive damage to ecosystems and can contain compounds toxic to organisms.

Israel is a major consumer of single-use plastics. The Environmental Protection Ministry said in a 2021 report that Israeli consumption of single-use plastics had more than doubled between 2009 and 2019. It said the per capita average hit 7.5 kilograms (16 pounds) per year — five times the average in Europe.

Single-use plastics made up an estimated 90% of trash on Israel’s coastline, and 19% of the garbage on public lands, constituting a major environmental threat, it said.

Nonetheless, Netanyahu’s ultra-Orthodox allies, or Haredim, are celebrating the plastic tax’s expected repeal. Disposable plasticware has become a key element of the Haredi lifestyle in Israel in recent decades, said Yisrael Cohen, an ultra-Orthodox political analyst.

Families with an average of six children per household use disposable plasticware for weekday meals and large Sabbath gatherings alike as a labor-saving solution to washing the dishes. Single-use plasticware is de rigueur in Jewish seminaries where ultra-Orthodox men study and eat their meals.

“It’s an entire industry, an institution,” he said. “Single-use plastic is a great solution for the Haredi community.”

For ultra-Orthodox politicians, these taxes were emblematic of what they considered the previous government’s attack on their lifestyle. Haredi media outlets frequently referred to them as “decrees” issued by the secular finance minister at the time, Avigdor Lieberman, that were aimed at targeting the religious minority.

“Lieberman has been depicted as the one who stuck it to the ultra-Orthodox on every issue,” Cohen said. “Automatically this thing was painted as something that targets the Haredim.”

Environmental groups say that over the course of 2022 — the year the tax was in effect — single-use plastic consumption dropped by a third.

A survey of Israeli beaches by a pair of environmental groups, Zalul and the Israel Union for Environmental Defense, found a significant drop in the quantity of single-use plasticware and plastic bottles on Israeli beaches. They cited the taxes on plastic and sweetened drinks.

On top of the environmental impact, the tax generated nearly $100 million in revenue, according to the country’s tax authority.

Meirav Abadi, an attorney with the union, said that repealing the tax would be “like a green light to go back to using these utensils in an even more intensive manner.”

Limor Gorelik, head of plastic pollution prevention at Zalul, called the minister’s photo op with the plastic cups “really embarrassing.”

“It’s so frustrating because we were so late in trying to make steps towards other countries” on multiple environmental issues. She fears Israel may “go backwards” on other issues as well.

Smotrich, the finance minister, has also extended a tax break on coal until the end of 2023 in a bid to keep electricity bills down — a move environmentalists say will increase consumption of the polluting fuel.

Silman, who was a member of Bennett’s party before defecting to Netanyahu’s Likud party last year, signaled on Sunday that she may yet change her stance.

Silman voted against the Cabinet decision to repeal the plastic tax, saying that after studying the issue in recent weeks, she has come to understand the “enormous” environmental cost of disposable plastics. She said the government should find an alternative way to reduce plastic consumption before doing away with the tax.

But she said the original tax was a mistake and should not have been done in a way that “arouses antagonism toward a particular population.”
 
He explicitly said hire someone and shabbat goyim are not allowed to be paid. People say shabbos goy without understanding what it means, it's very restrictive and you can't just hire a non Jew to do whatever you want for you on shabbat. Even if it was ok to do that the fact is that there aren't many goyim in haredi neighborhoods.
I will file that under interesting and informative. Thanks

Something like 100 corporations are responsible for 70 percent of the pollution and plastic waste in the world. A population of about 2 or 3 million using more or less plastic silverware is not going to make a dent in the amount of plastic waste in the world. They can afford the kids, they just can't afford all the time spent washing dishes.

It's every little bit. Hit the corps just as much as the people supporting them,.

Additionally if you have the kids, put them to work. More kids, less time between them to spread out the labor. Just making up excuses at this point.
 
He explicitly said hire someone and shabbat goyim are not allowed to be paid. People say shabbos goy without understanding what it means, it's very restrictive and you can't just hire a non Jew to do whatever you want for you on shabbat. Even if it was ok to do that the fact is that there aren't many goyim in haredi neighborhoods.
You don't pay them on Shabbat because you don't handle money on Shabbat, but you contract with a goy for them to be around on Shabbat. Money is exchanged, because their assistance is needed one day a week, and you're paying them because they could be working but instead they're helping you and your family. You also don't directly tell them to do this or do that, because you would be ordering them to do work, which is why you have to train them on what is needed when it isn't Shabbat.

And no, the poster wasn't referring to hiring help generally; it was always in the context of plastic flatware and the prohibition of work because of the Sabbath. That was always in view. He was referring to a shabbos goy.
 
You don't pay them on Shabbat because you don't handle money on Shabbat, but you contract with a goy for them to be around on Shabbat. Money is exchanged, because their assistance is needed one day a week, and you're paying them because they could be working but instead they're helping you and your family. You also don't directly tell them to do this or do that, because you would be ordering them to do work, which is why you have to train them on what is needed when it isn't Shabbat.

And no, the poster wasn't referring to hiring help generally; it was always in the context of plastic flatware and the prohibition of work because of the Sabbath. That was always in view. He was referring to a shabbos goy.
Yeah that's the misconception
https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/1140867/jewish/The-Myth-of-the-Shabbos-Goy.htm

Generally, one may not ask a non-Jew to perform any type of work on Shabbat which is forbidden for a Jew to do. This is true whether that non-Jew is someone who usually works for the Jew or not,16 whether he's doing the work for free or he's being paid, and whether he was told on Shabbat or before Shabbat about performing the work.17 In fact, even if the non-Jew performs work for the Jew on his own accord, in certain cases, if the Jew sees him doing it, he is obligated to protest.18 In many cases, it is even forbidden to benefit from the work until after Shabbat has ended and the amount of time it took to perform that work has elapsed.19

On the other hand, one may hire a non-Jew to perform work on Shabbat that Jews are permitted to do.20 When paying them for this work, some say that one should pay for the Shabbat work together with a payment for some work done during the week.21 Others say that this is not necessary.22

In the specific examples it mentions washing clothes

Examples of Prohibited Work
One may not allow one's non-Jewish employee to wash or iron clothes, even if the non-Jew is doing it of his own accord (e.g., in order to lighten his workload on Monday).23
One may not ask a non-Jew to turn on a light in one's home.24
One may not tell one's non-Jewish employee to perform work for one's company on Shabbat even if the work will be done in the employee's home.

Even if a non Jew wandered into my house, ate from my plate, and wanted to wash his dish plus the other dishes it still wouldn't be allowed

If the non-Jew is performing work for his own benefit, in certain cases the Jew may benefit from this work, and in others he may not. The principle is this: If it would require the non-Jew to perform additional work in order for the Jew to enjoy any benefit, the Jew may not benefit directly from this work on Shabbat. This is because the Sages feared that the gentile might specifically increase his labor for the sake of the Jew, which would mean that work is now being done for the direct benefit of the Jew, and if the Jew were permitted to benefit from this work, someone might ask the non-Jew directly to perform it.33
 
Yeah that's the misconception
https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/1140867/jewish/The-Myth-of-the-Shabbos-Goy.htm



In the specific examples it mentions washing clothes



Even if a non Jew wandered into my house, ate from my plate, and wanted to wash his dish plus the other dishes it still wouldn't be allowed
Chabad is not the gold standard of Judaism. Schneerson is dead. The ultra Orthodox love to tell Jews they're doing it wrong don't they.
 
Chabad is not the gold standard of Judaism. Schneerson is dead. The ultra Orthodox love to tell Jews they're doing it wrong don't they.
Chabad holds the mainstream Orthodox position in this case. Both ultra Orthodox and Orthodox have the same rulings.

https://www.aishdas.org/rygb/goyim.htm

The "ultra Orthodox" are the ones keeping the religion alive, reform Jews and such are trying to kill it
 
They do that too but when you have families that have 10 kids on average you need single use disposables otherwise mom is going to spend the whole day washing dishes.

Also fucking hilarious how apparently laws specifically designed to target a religious minority are ok if they're against haredi Jews.
Is the Jew too cheap to afford a dishwasher?
 
Chabad holds the mainstream Orthodox position in this case. Both ultra Orthodox and Orthodox have the same rulings.

https://www.aishdas.org/rygb/goyim.htm

The "ultra Orthodox" are the ones keeping the religion alive, reform Jews and such are trying to kill it
"And such". Be specific. Conservative is doing just fine. The majority of Jews hate the ultra Orthodox. They're our brand of Amish. Insular, selfish, condemnatory, draconian and secretly filled with or covering for rape. Tell me all about the agunah liberating rackets they run, or the mafia-like corrupt kashrut certifiers in the land, or hidden cameras in the lavers, then get back to me with "muh they're keeping the religion alive."
 
When Christianity gets in the way of liberal ideology it gets told to either change or shut up. Why should the Hebrew be treated any differently?

Also don't have kids if you can't support them.
 
"And such". Be specific. Conservative is doing just fine. The majority of Jews hate the ultra Orthodox. They're our brand of Amish. Insular, selfish, condemnatory, draconian and secretly filled with or covering for rape. Tell me all about the agunah liberating rackets they run, or the mafia-like corrupt kashrut certifiers in the land, or hidden cameras in the lavers, then get back to me with "muh they're keeping the religion alive."
Was it the ultra Orthodox that ran the Weimar, inspiring Hitler to carry out the Holocaust? How about founding Communism and leading the Revolution in Russia with the end result being that Jews born in the USSR were born as second class citizens without the option to leave, rendering them prisoners in their own country? Reforms/diaspora seculars talk a lot of shit but it's no coincidence that the country which was the center of the Reform movement was the country who started killing Jews en masse.

Orthodox Judaism has a lot of problems for sure but we never triggered a genocide by pushing homosexuality and troonism on failed nations. You guys did it once, got 6 million killed, and now are doing it again by pushing it again on America and creating anti semitism. The only redeeming factors about secular Jews were the creation of Israel which you guys now hate and the fact that your population is dropping like a rock to the point where you guys accept Becky Gerber as a convert. Add in the Orthodox birthrate compared to yours and you'll be another blip on history like the Samaritans and the Sadducees while we'll keep on doing the same stuff we've been doing for 2000 years while keeping our heads down.
 
How did you tackle family meals for the 1950 years preceding the invention of disposable plastics?
Moms and daughters spent a lot of time washing dishes. In that era women and girls spent less time doing stuff like college and working so they had the spare time to do so. Now they don't.
 
Moms and daughters spent a lot of time washing dishes. In that era women and girls spent less time doing stuff like college and working so they had the spare time to do so. Now they don't.
Couldn't the state subsidize non-plastic single-use kitchenware (like bamboo-based or such)? Although what I'm getting from this thread is that the state doesn't really want to help the ultra-orthodox.
 
Couldn't the state subsidize non-plastic single-use kitchenware (like bamboo-based or such)? Although what I'm getting from this thread is that the state doesn't really want to help the ultra-orthodox.
I mean technically but the ultra Orthodox suck up so much welfare from the state that there's kinda no point. The previous government wanted to cut back on the welfare given to the ultra Orthodox but did it in the dumbest possible way.
 
Was it the ultra Orthodox that ran the Weimar, inspiring Hitler to carry out the Holocaust? How about founding Communism and leading the Revolution in Russia with the end result being that Jews born in the USSR were born as second class citizens without the option to leave, rendering them prisoners in their own country? Reforms/diaspora seculars talk a lot of shit but it's no coincidence that the country which was the center of the Reform movement was the country who started killing Jews en masse.

Orthodox Judaism has a lot of problems for sure but we never triggered a genocide by pushing homosexuality and troonism on failed nations. You guys did it once, got 6 million killed, and now are doing it again by pushing it again on America and creating anti semitism. The only redeeming factors about secular Jews were the creation of Israel which you guys now hate and the fact that your population is dropping like a rock to the point where you guys accept Becky Gerber as a convert. Add in the Orthodox birthrate compared to yours and you'll be another blip on history like the Samaritans and the Sadducees while we'll keep on doing the same stuff we've been doing for 2000 years while keeping our heads down.
  • Non-Orthodox observance is worthless.
  • Non-Orthodox are going to die out and that's a good thing.
  • Non-Orthodox caused the Holocaust.
  • Non-Orthodox caused Communism and are responsible for its horrors.
Do you hear yourself? Sounds like more Orthodox love to me. Small wonder people leave. The most righteous you get is self righteous. All this rancor because I voiced disagreement with ultra Orthodox. As soon as you get any opposition you have all this judgment to unleash.

Funny you mention Israel. Oh is Israel good enough for the Orthodox to move there and parasitize the non-Orthodox? Must be nice getting free food and money to read a book and make inbred retard babies. Must be nice not risking their own blood but condemning Jews who do.
 
  • Non-Orthodox observance is worthless.
Yes, the reform sect is literally based off a German Rabbi wanting to change the holy day to Sunday and play organ music in order to match his non Jewish neighbors, look into the history of reform Judaism and you'll find no actual theological standing.
  • Non-Orthodox are going to die out and that's a good thing.
Non Orthodox won't die out, Reform and conservative Judaism will die out. I have no problem with people being not Orthodox if they respect the institution of Judaism. There's a reason why I haven't shit on traditional Jews and the Israeli masortim. They don't pretend like they are legitimate, they simply say that they can't live up to the obligations of the religion. Meanwhile the Reform Jews do stuff like the treif banquet.

https://www.jta.org/2018/01/16/opinion/what-really-happened-at-the-original-trefa-banquet

I want you to notice something.

One of those who attended the banquet, the eminent Reform Rabbi Kaufmann Kohler, later Wise’s successor as president of Hebrew Union College, admitted in a private letter that the banquet was a “big blunder.” It shows, he wrote, “how little judgement laymen have in religious matters.”
Rabbi Wise also knew the banquet was a blunder. After all, he himself kept a kosher home – his second wife, the daughter of an Orthodox rabbi, insisted upon it. But he was not the kind of leader who believed in making apologies. Instead he lashed out against his critics, insisting that the dietary laws had lost all validity, and ridiculed them for advocating “kitchen Judaism.”

One of the major reform rabbis understood that he had made a major breach of halacha but instead of acknowledging the breach as something wrong because he personally kept kosher at home and knew better, he instead doubled down out of ego.
  • Non-Orthodox caused the Holocaust.
  • Non-Orthodox caused Communism and are responsible for its horrors.
Look at the Weimar government and the early Communist government, you trip over Jews all the time. Marx was a Jew.

Do you hear yourself? Sounds like more Orthodox love to me. Small wonder people leave. The most righteous you get is self righteous. All this rancor because I voiced disagreement with ultra Orthodox. As soon as you get any opposition you have all this judgment to unleash.

You didn't just disagree. Quoting you

Conservative is doing just fine. The majority of Jews hate the ultra Orthodox. They're our brand of Amish. Insular, selfish, condemnatory, draconian and secretly filled with or covering for rape.

You talk shit about how my sect is backwards and rapists then cry about the rancor of the response and how I'm judging you? Notice how you're phrasing things in order to be the victim here.
Funny you mention Israel. Oh is Israel good enough for the Orthodox to move there and parasitize the non-Orthodox? Must be nice getting free food and money to read a book and make inbred retard babies. Must be nice not risking their own blood but condemning Jews who do.
I've mentioned that Orthodox Jews have issues and I'm not ignoring them. These are legitimate issues that need to be addressed and you're right. However there is a ton of good that comes from the community.
 
You talk shit about how my sect is backwards and rapists then cry about the rancor of the response and how I'm judging you? Notice how you're phrasing things in order to be the victim here.
In response to your arrogance in trying to correct me. Orthodox haven’t heard of love. You're mad that not everyone operates under "the Orthodox are right though" for every single issue.

Go churn some butter, Amish.
 
In response to your arrogance in trying to correct me. Orthodox haven’t heard of love. You're mad that not everyone operates under "the Orthodox are right though" for every single issue.

Go churn some butter, Amish.
What love are you talking about? Are you referring to the shidduch system or are you talking about gods love? You didn't refute a single thing I said by the way.
 
What love are you talking about? Are you referring to the shidduch system or are you talking about gods love? You didn't refute a single thing I said by the way.
Because I don't have time to argue with someone who thinks and even stated their sect is "keeping the religion alive." I know better than to engage with Orthodox Jews who think the way they keep the faith will save Judaism and the Jewish people, which gives your whole theology a messiah complex. You're beyond my ability to help. G-d save us from your opinions.
 
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