KR Japanese Manga are being eclipsed by Korean webtoons - The industry’s business model has hardly changed since the 1960s

https://www.economist.com/asia/2022/12/08/japanese-manga-are-being-eclipsed-by-korean-webtoons (https://archive.vn/aesfl)

Lee hyun-seok grew up in South Korea addicted to Japanese manga series such as “Dragon Ball” and “Slam Dunk”. As soon as he could, he emigrated to Tokyo to build a successful career as a manga artist and editor. Then in the early 2000s came “webtoons”, a South Korean cartoon innovation optimised for smartphones. Mr Lee was at first unimpressed. Compared with manga’s inventive graphic styles and sophisticated plots, he found webtoons crude and superficial. “I thought: ‘Anybody can make this’.”

Yet Japanese manga are being eclipsed by Korean webtoons. Last year the manga print market shrank by 2.3% to ¥265bn ($1.9bn). The size of the global webtoons market was meanwhile valued at $3.7bn—and projected to reach $56bn by 2030. Manga are gravitating to digital slowly, in part because they are still designed for print, so awkward to read on smartphones. The letters tend to be too small and the way the panels are laid out requires constant zooming in and out. Seeing which way the wind was blowing, Mr Lee abandoned manga for the webtoon industry in 2014.

Though webtoons such as “Itaewon Class” and “Solo Levelling” have become popular among Japanese consumers, most Japanese publishers have stuck doggedly to manga. “The Japanese industry is very conservative,” sighs Mr Lee. “There’s a strong belief that it’s better to stick with precedent.” The manga industry’s business model, in which stories are first published in weekly magazines and then in books, has hardly changed since the 1960s.

Their format is also sacrosanct. Japanese manga hew to unique templates which require special knowledge of readers, such as the order in which panels must be read. “The only people who know how to read manga are Japanese, Koreans and geeks across the world,” says Iwamoto Keita, who runs a cartoon studio. Webtoons have grown so fast, in part, because they can be read more easily and intuitively.

It is tempting to see the way manga traditionalists are ceding the global cartoon market to South Korean innovators as symbolic of a broader malaise: the sluggishness and introspection of too many Japanese firms. Other recent South Korean exports, such as the Netflix sensation “Squid Game” and bts, a boy band, have taken the world by storm thanks to the same combination of innovation and smart marketing behind webtoons. Meanwhile, the “Cool Japan” strategy of the government in Tokyo, intended to emulate that Korean success, has been a flop. Having run up huge losses, it may soon be abandoned.

And yet, by sticking to what it does best, the manga industry has at least maintained its strengths. Its complicated layouts can convey sophisticated narratives. And many manga are artistic wonders, with designs manipulated at the millimetre level. Witness the intricate ink drawings in “Vagabond”, an epic martial-arts series, or the surrealist illustrations of “Berserk”, a medieval fantasy. By contrast, complex plots with dramatic twists are hard to convey in webtoons, which can display only a limited number of words. “I doubt webtoons would ever trump manga in terms of quality,” says Mr Iwamoto.

With their strong stories and craftsmanship, manga maintain a loyal domestic audience, which gives publishers little motivation to innovate or change. Growth in their core business may be flagging; yet they can still find opportunities to boost revenues through anime adaptations, or by collaborating with businesses that create manga-themed merchandise. Shueisha, the publisher that produced “Demon Slayer”, a recent hit manga and anime, had record sales in 2021. “There’s not much of a sense of crisis among Japanese publishers,” observes Nakayama Atsuo, an entertainment-industry expert.

Some still fret about the future. Japan’s manga fans are, like all its population, ageing. The average reader of the Weekly Shonen Magazine, a manga anthology for children (shonen means “young boy”) launched in 1959, is now over 30. “Manga could end up as old people’s culture,” warns Mr Lee. “Children these days are scrolling through webtoons on their smartphones. Why not make something that suits their taste?”




Is this a nothingburger? Weebs on suicide watch?
 
I’ve also been reading a lot on MangaDex, but alas I’m an old school reader and if I like a work enough I’d just rather have a physical copy of it.

Speaking of art, the only Korean Webtoon art I have found to be close to impressive so far is The Abandoned Empress… but the story takes a nosedive after the first season when it stopped being about avoiding a seemingly unavoidable execution.
I think the digital color webtoon format is making some of the action series look better, at least to my untrained eye. Solo Leveling being one example.

I read so many of these shits that I don't care much at all about art quality, just story and other aspects. One Punch Man is a major hit, but look at the goofy art style of the original webcomic.
 
It seems to me that Koreans are basically following along with Japanese trends with some digital changes (read: they're obsessed with MMOs, so half their stuff is like MMOs).
I think that was something Koreans did on their own, given that South Korea is an MMO juggernaut. I also get the sense that Japan followed suit for reasons particular to their otaku culture, rather than copying South Korea.

Though I can't imagine what you've been reading where there is constant rape.
If you read manga on Mangahere, when you see a manhwa update, it's likely to be at least erotic. If it's erotic, it's likely to be rapey. Even when most of the narrative doesn't center around sex-- when the sex does happen, it's often rapey.

Art is shit. They look more expensive because they have color, but they have infinite scroll cancer and they change artists every season so there's no fucking consistency for long term readers. When they have good art, the art doesn't stay good. When they have shit art, if the story is good enough then their derpy faces will grow on you and give the series some charm... Until the art improves and suddenly you're reading mundane trash again.
It's already been mentioned multiple times, but these artists will sooner generate a plate of curry and rice in SketchUp before they try to draw it.

The people who make 5-30 pages for a webtoon chapter (which constitutes 5-30 images) cannot be more pressed than the author for a weekly manga, that they can't draw a plate of curry and rice. Do they have an aversion to still life? Is that it?
 
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Just read everything on MangaDex or one of the shittier sites if it's not on there. Also, pirate all Hollywood entertainment, books, etc.
For older stuff, there's also the Dekai Manga pack (which exists on Archive.org as well).

There's also a light novel pack, but I don't know if there's a non-torrent mirror.

A majority of Manhwa I've seen has been absolutely shit. Korean creativity in general seems rather lacklustre (Though OldBoy, Train to Busan, and Parasite were enjoyable.) I assume a significant portion of Manga are similarly terrible, as with any medium, but I've also been exposed to plenty of quality examples that provide evidence that there is plenty of talent in Nihon.

I've literally never once seen a Manhua that was any good, but I've also never seen anything of quality made by the Chinks. (Hong Kong being an exception)
My hypothesis about China is that their media so frequently devolves to eating ancient tiger dicks and calling the evil sister in law a black bellied whore because their speech has been so repressed for so long that they're still at the Mary Sue / Gary Stu wish fulfillment phase of their creativity. They are creative children, and I don't mean that in the good way.

My theory on Japan having so many clones but also having a few treasures is that this is a skill, there will always be beginners you can't get rid of low skill beginners but at least those beginners can get better.

My theory on Korea is that they're somewhere in between. Supposedly they aren't under a dictatorship or anything, but how separated from NK are they really? Especially considering SK keeps trying to send their media back to NK. Could NK even understand a real story?
 
Meanwhile, the “Cool Japan” strategy of the government in Tokyo, intended to emulate that Korean success, has been a flop.
That was a grift. Buying from Japan is hard and has been made harder by the covid shipping cockblock. Licensing anything Japanese is also hard.

Here, I'll quote wikipedia:
Here we go
  • 2014
  • Traditional Japanese crafts showcased at Maison & Objet, the world's largest trade fair for interior goods and designs, to promote Japan's monodzukuri (manufacturing) culture.
It's expensive home decor for faggots. Lmao.
  • WakuWaku Japan, Japanese satellite television channel that broadcasts Japanese programs to overseas viewers in Asia. It was a joint venture with broadcaster Sky Perfect JSAT who contributed ¥6.6 billion out of ¥11 billion, but failed to expand in multiple markets and generate viewership, with nearly ¥4 billion losses until 2017.
In Indonesian (love Japs but 788 USD median wage), Mandarin (hate Japs), and English. Who was supposed to subscribe?
  • 2015
  • METI starts Nippon Quest, a website to showcase and disseminate unknown Japanese regional specialties to the world.
"National cuisine, goods and activities". What is this supposed to sell and how?
  • US cafes focused on Japanese tea, on which was spent ¥250 million for nearly 50% stake.
  • Funding of the development of content creators for anime and manga outside Japan by KADOKAWA Contents Academy Co., Ltd.
This is exactly the opposite of what people want.
  • 2016
  • Isetan the Japan Store, a joint venture with Isetan to make a five-floor department store in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia, to promote Japanese goods and services. However, lack of demand resulted with a loss of circa $4.5 million, and all Cool Japan Fund shares sold to Isetan Mitsukoshi Holdings.
Not a completely terrible idea, given that Malays love Japs, except:
Jap median wage: 4'730 USD
Malay median wage: 518 USD

  • 2018
  • The first investment with new management was $12.5 million in Tastemade, becoming a minority shareholder, to support making of content promoting Japanese food and destinations.
Again, "food and destinations".
  • 2019
  • Cool Japan Fund invests US$30 million in American anime licensing company Sentai Holdings, aiming to provide support at the copyright level, and increasing the presence of anime in North America. On September 30, 2020, the Cool Japan Fund made an additional US$3.6 million available, stating that Sentai had achieved better financial results in 2019 compared to 2018, with plans for medium and long-term growth, and strategic changes following the COVID-19 pandemic.
Sentai's been sold, and I have much better ways to spend my scarce internationally-liquid money these days, but back when I might have subscribed, Sentai specifically were utterly ass about geoblocking, even though they had the mandate to destroy it.

Its complicated layouts can convey sophisticated narratives. And many manga are artistic wonders, with designs manipulated at the millimetre level.
Lmao what. Just going on Mangadex and looking at the covers, I see a front page full of isekai garbage, and I can't tell which of those are jap, chink or gook. I've seen a lot of manga that's 'shopped rather than drawn, shat out onto the page with no regard for quality of the individual frames or composition.

Anyone know who authored the print edition of this story? I don't see the name on there.
ChatGPT.

---
PS. It just occurred to me, that now that ChatGPT exists, we humans can recognize each other in the grand necropolis of the Internet by saying "nigger". Someone recently posted the "minimal Turing test": you and a machine say one word to convince the jury you're human, the loser is destroyed. The winning word is "nigger".
 
It's fascinating that we went from picture scrolls to pages, to collections of pages, only to go back to scrolls again, albeit in a new digital form. Time really is a circle.

Korean stuff mostly sucks, their concept of storytelling is really janky and disjointed. The amount of good korean series I can count on one hand. Only their degenerate gay fujobait even comes close to competing to jap crap.
 
My hypothesis about China is that their media so frequently devolves to eating ancient tiger dicks and calling the evil sister in law a black bellied whore because their speech has been so repressed for so long that they're still at the Mary Sue / Gary Stu wish fulfillment phase of their creativity. They are creative children, and I don't mean that in the good way.

My theory on Japan having so many clones but also having a few treasures is that this is a skill, there will always be beginners you can't get rid of low skill beginners but at least those beginners can get better.

My theory on Korea is that they're somewhere in between. Supposedly they aren't under a dictatorship or anything, but how separated from NK are they really? Especially considering SK keeps trying to send their media back to NK. Could NK even understand a real story?

I think it's less that SK has influence from NK, and more than SK is an absurdly conformist society. There is seemingly one singular beauty standard for Men and Women, which is presumably why every Sork man has the same fucking haircut, and every Sork woman has exactly the same fucking plastic surgery. This dulls creativity, and that creativity which remains is focused in strange ways; The South Korean escapist fantasy seems to involve the equivalent of shooting up your school. It's similar to how you describe the Chinese in terms of their wish fulfilment fantasies.

On China: I agree. They have absolutely regressed into bugmen. Three-kingdoms chinese history and fiction is actually interesting, but the CCP has eradicated Chinese culture to the point where the average person is effectively a drone. This obviously does no engender creativity in the slightest.

Japan is also conformist, but not in the same destructive fashion as either of its' slant contemporaries.
 
I think that was something Koreans did on their own, given that South Korea is an MMO juggernaut. I also get the sense that Japan followed suit for reasons particular to their otaku culture, rather than copying South Korea.


If you read manga on Mangahere, when you see a manhwa update, it's likely to be at least erotic. If it's erotic, it's likely to be rapey. Even when most of the narrative doesn't center around sex-- when the sex does happen, it's often rapey.
Ah, I should have clarified - I meant Korea is copying Japan with their own twists due to their MMO-obsessed and chaebol-centric culture.

As for the second thing - you know what, I don't doubt you. Not sure what it is about Asians and rape but God damn is it prominent.
 
It's already been mentioned multiple times, but these artists will sooner generate a plate of curry and rice in SketchUp before they try to draw it.

The people who make 5-30 pages for a webtoon chapter (which constitutes 5-30 images) cannot be more pressed than the author for a weekly manga, that they can't draw a plate of curry and rice. Do they have an aversion to still life? Is that it?
It's not just the background scenery stuff that people mentioned, they're shit at humans too, I don't usually look at the props unless they're plot relevant so their quality doesn't register to me.

Here's the toon I had in mind in particular:
43e4cb4b-4b51-4afe-a980-2f070d4233db.jpg

84a98b20-3b17-4fb6-936c-60d190db855b.jpg

a5003589-0d28-4f56-adb4-e1164f04d005.jpg

Sure, the art looks better than anything I could make, but it's nothing I would take seriously in the modern era. The red girl is too sharp and exaggerated, the blue girl is too derpy and her eyes don't focus right, and I'm pretty sure if she were looking at you head on her right eye (our left) would be floating off her face.

But, it has its own charm, and blue looking so fucked up works out well for her sometimes.

163a400e-c73a-4340-bc06-f5b509eb155d.jpg

Then the next season came and the art changed to some nicer looking art that was just so sanitized and gross after the deranged look had grown on me.

Also note the horrible English as well. A decade ago, scanlations would be slow but quality, but nowadays there's always the risk that they'll suddenly switch to being speedy but shit, and that sucks because nobody wants to fix a project with low quality translations when they could pick up something with no competition at all.

768e727d-ccaf-499e-b9d7-10abadd3291b.jpg

I remember there were similarly large art shifts with Legendary Moonlight Sculptor and Gourmet Gaming that bothered me simply because I'm an autist who hates change, but I don't think I got as attached to that art as I did to miss psychopaths with the floating eyeball here.

313b8f42-ee73-4818-838c-3bdbb09327c7.jpg
 
Webtoons are cancer to read and basically are a rehash of the old English method of publication (publish as much garbage as possible as fast as possible to make as much profit as possible so people don't notice that its shit). Like Dickenson got paid per word which is why all of his stories are packed full of purple prose so publishers could chop it up and you'd have to buy it over a long period of time.

The business model is the same with webtoons. Churn out as much crap as humanly possible in order to make people pay for it. But then when you read them in large chunks there's a lot of empty space and wasted area, with a ton of shit drawn excessively quick. The single panel also makes things that should go quick take forever. (Though obviously its not Dickenson, he's just the most famous and probably best quality example of the style of publication from that era).

Basically, we're back to the age of the penny dreadful, where you pay a little bit for constant updates of content, even if that content is shit churned out as quick as possible. The more things change, the more they stay the same.

Obviously, this form of publication didn't take over books nor will Webtoons take over manga. Its just one strategy of publishing over another.
 
I bet Korean cartoons have better writing and art
A majority of Manhwa I've seen has been absolutely shit. Korean creativity in general seems rather lacklustre (Though OldBoy, Train to Busan, and Parasite were enjoyable.) I assume a significant portion of Manga are similarly terrible, as with any medium, but I've also been exposed to plenty of quality examples that provide evidence that there is plenty of talent in Nihon.

I've literally never once seen a Manhua that was any good, but I've also never seen anything of quality made by the Chinks. (Hong Kong being an exception)
Almost every single one is either a reincarnation story/isekai or a time-travel story, or a time-travel/reincarnation/isekai.
Also, this:
1670871116300.png
 
A total nothing burger.
People pay for manga, people "rarely", if any, pay for webtoons. The sales of the top webtoon doesn't even begin to kiss the tails of top 10 mangas.

You know who webtoons benefit the most? The publisher, they earn by ads. Meanwhile artists are encouraged to slave away & submit their manhwa for free. Only the few top viewership gets paid.

So what are the top webtoons that are very famous recently? Nothing comes to mind? Meanwhile manga has Spy X Family, Chainsaw Man, Demon Slayer, One Piece, Goblin Slayer, Attack on Titan etc.

Webtoons are like tiktok, people just browse them easily, but not many gives a shit too.
 
Most korean webtoons i've read fucking suck and have incredibly poor review averages. Even one relatively high rated called "solo leveling" is absolute shit. They all do the same thing over and over: protagonist starts humble and work intelligently, then they become vapid and super powerful, godly. They always "get the girl" who is some super model who is equally super powerful. They always accentuate the dumbest shit like the act of someone petting a deer and onlookers will go "whoaaaa i cant believe he would do THAT!". There are way too many which are isekai. Christ.

The only thing worst than anime is copycat anime by idiot koreans and chinese.

So what are the top webtoons that are very famous recently? Nothing comes to mind?

Basically Tower of God and Nobelesse, which are still shitty.
 
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We must nuke South Korea.
Can we wait until Stellar Blade comes out?
If you read manga on Mangahere, when you see a manhwa update, it's likely to be at least erotic. If it's erotic, it's likely to be rapey. Even when most of the narrative doesn't center around sex-- when the sex does happen, it's often rapey.
Mangahere is still around? Loved reading the annotations there. Some manga was best read just for them. Like Wolf Guy Wolfen Crest. The manga sucks. The annotations are great.
 
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Most manhua, or manhwa, that I’ve seen on these manga sites is filled with the occasional erotic/pornographic storylines that are also colored to the brim. These days, the one-shot comics are more popular than the webtoons.
 
Mangahere is still around? Loved reading the annotations there.
I get the sense the site is held up by some skeleton crew, some dedicated human crawlers, and a lot of bot crawlers.

I'm reminded of an "okay, which one of you guys posted this" moment I had when reading Hatsukoi Zombie a while ago:

1670873471700.png 1670873571900.png

Like Wolf Guy Wolfen Crest. The manga sucks. The annotations are great.
They had at least one annotation purge, and also revamped the annotation system. If I'm recalling the "tsukkomi" functionality correctly, the current "danmaku" functionality that replaces it has more placement accuracy but nothing else that the tsukkomis had.
 
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If you want to see the top end of art quality for manhwa, I'd recommend A Stepmother's Marchen. Writing-wise, I'd say the characters and plot are both decent-to-good, but frequently held back by incompetent translators using machine tls and MSPainting in the text in bad fonts. But the faces, hair, clothing, and backgrounds are are phenomenal, and I don't recall them using the same prefab assets (lol Castle-nim) that everyone else does, or at least they put work into covering it up with filters and touch-ups to the point that you're not constantly going "Oh I recognize that hallway."

Manhua... There's something about the ubiquity of "kiss-up/kick-down" mentality in Chinese culture that I find incredibly off-putting.
 
Helps having webtoons sold for like $.50 or less a chapter and done online. While there’s a lot of garbage, you can occasionally find some stuff that’s pleasant like I enjoyed I Shall Live As A Prince.

Sort of stuff you can easily read on your phone while half asleep in bed, which manga would have a hard time competing with.
 
Is it like with the American comic industry? Because of porn?
 
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