All Baptisms Performed By Phoenix Priest Invalid Because He Changed One Word - Reverend Andres Arango has resigned to “dedicate my energy and full time ministry to help remedy this and heal those affected."

A Catholic priest in Arizona resigned after discovering he incorrectly performed thousands of baptisms for over 20 years​

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- It wasn't immediately clear how many baptisms the priest had performed.

A priest resigned earlier this month after his diocese discovered the baptisms he had performed were invalid because he had changed a single word while performing the sacrament.

"It is with sincere pastoral concern that I inform the faithful that baptisms performed by Reverend Andres Arango, a priest of the Diocese of Phoenix, are invalid," Bishop of the Diocese of Phoenix Thomas J. Olmsted announced in a letter last month.

"This determination was made after careful study by diocesan officials and through consultation with the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith in Rome," he wrote.

Arango, who has been practicing as a priest for more than two decades, used the phrase “We baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit," instead of "I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit."

"The issue with using 'We' is that it is not the community that baptizes a person, rather, it is Christ, and Him alone, who presides at all of the sacraments, and so it is Christ Jesus who baptizes," Olmsted said.

The Vatican’s Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith in 2020 clarified that using [A] "we" during the first sacrament was not valid.

It wasn't immediately clear how many baptisms Arango performed. He also practiced in San Diego and Brazil.

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Rain and petals eavesdrop, he used the wrong word.

 

[Some JERK]

In this case, the priest made the "mistake" several times despite it being certain that they have instructions for the rite. And even without it being disobedience, it's still an error that negatively impacts several people.

It's like (again) heart surgery-- sure, you might have "made a mistake" when cut where you shouldn't have, but now the person you were operating on is dead.

At this point it isn't even a matter of the people who were affected by the priest doing what he did-- it's a matter of the priest putting people in (for as much as a Catholic can claim to know) jeopardy because he functionally wasn't doing his best in giving the faithful as many of the tools that they needed to put them on the best path.

If the hospital was ultimately in charge of who lives and dies and could choose not to allow someone to be dead that analogy would fit. God is in charge of what happens to someone's immortal soul. Sending it to hell because a preist did something wrong is some fucked up shit.

 

[Unassuming Local Guy]

Where am I? Am I...dead?

Welcome to heaven, Unassuming Local Guy. You have done well in following my teachings, and you were baptized as well. Good. Your reward is an eternity in the paradise of...wait a second.

What seems to be the problem, Mister God?

Well the thing is, when you were baptized, he was supposed to say "I baptize you", but he said "we baptize you". He didn't follow the script. So unfortunately I'm going to have to sentence you to one million years in purgatory.

But I followed Christ! I went to church!

Sorry man, those are the rules. I didn't make them. I mean I did, but you know. See you in a million years!

NOOOOOOOOOOO

 

[Cable 7]

Holy shit, they made that Clickhole article real.

 

[Zero Day Defense]

If the hospital was ultimately in charge of who lives and dies and could choose not to allow someone to be dead that analogy would fit. God is in charge of what happens to someone's immortal soul. Sending it to hell because a preist did something wrong is some fucked up shit.

The claim isn't that they'll go to hell because they didn't get a proper baptism, because Catholics don't believe in making certain claims about one's final destination-- much less another's. Presumably, this is why the only thing that they're saying with confidence is that he performed baptisms incorrectly.

That said, the Church is often likened to a hospital for the soul, so the analogy very much fits. Yes, God is the ultimate judge of the soul, but the Church has a job in introducing the proper treatment for said soul-- that's what God tasked it with. The assertion, therefore, is that the priest committed the spiritual equivalent of repeated medical malpractice-- even if some may have made it out okay regardless (and that's possible, and Catholic theology AFAIK would acknowledge this possibility), the fault of the priest is that he didn't do what he needed to in order to give those under him the best shot possible.

Again, the concern now isn't about the improperly baptized, it's about the priest not doing what he was supposed to do under their rules.

 

[Some JERK]

Catholics don't believe in making certain claims about one's final destination-- much less another's.

Come on now...

 

[King Dead]

The Lutheran part of me is having a right ol' laugh at this shit. Yet another instance of Catholics prioritizing human law over God's word.

If you want more chuckles, take a look at the FAQ page the diocese set up for this kerfuffle. I particularly enjoy the "does this affect my marriage?" question where they basically reply "i dunno lol." My guess is the answer is actually yes, but they really don't want to open the can of worms of telling hundreds or thousands of couples that they've been living in sin all this time and their children are bastards.

 

[Zero Day Defense]

Come on now...

A point of consternation Protestants have with Catholics and Orthodox is that they won't claim "assured salvation" with certainty.

What's actually happening is that they're not claiming knowledge of the future but will at least acknowledge God's present working in them.

My guess is the answer is actually yes, but they really don't want to open the can of worms of telling hundreds or thousands of couples that they've been living in sin all this time and their children are bastards.

It's a "we don't know the circumstances of your marriage and there are several of them to consider, please actually talk about it with someone"-- this is why they give a more direct answer for the questions about Communion ("no, please don't receive communion again until you're properly baptized") and why they say this when talking about the importance of baptism:

God has bound salvation to the sacrament of Baptism, but he himself is not bound by his sacraments.

They recognize the concepts of "baptism by blood" and "baptism by desire", because they recognize that God isn't bound by the sacraments He provides to the Church, but it's just that the typical sacrament of baptism is a clearly observable one as opposed to the other two. If everything is done as prescribed, the church has certainty that a baptism was efficaciously performed-- "baptism by blood" and "baptism by desire" are just two forms of hope and an applied acknowledgment of God's mercy because the RCC likes tabulating and categorizing everything.

 

[Some JERK]

A point of consternation Protestants have with Catholics and Orthodox is that they won't claim "assured salvation" with certainty.

What's actually happening is that they're not claiming knowledge of the future but will at least acknowledge God's present working in them.

Bro if I had a nickel for every time I heard a Catholic assuredly say that me/them/someone else was going to hell, I wouldn't be rich, but I would have a shit ton of nickels.

 

[Larry David's Opera Cape]

The claim isn't that they'll go to hell because they didn't get a proper baptism, because Catholics don't believe in making certain claims about one's final destination-- much less another's. Presumably, this is why the only thing that they're saying with confidence is that he performed baptisms incorrectly.

That said, the Church is often likened to a hospital for the soul, so the analogy very much fits. Yes, God is the ultimate judge of the soul, but the Church has a job in introducing the proper treatment for said soul-- that's what God tasked it with. The assertion, therefore, is that the priest committed the spiritual equivalent of repeated medical malpractice-- even if some may have made it out okay regardless (and that's possible, and Catholic theology AFAIK would acknowledge this possibility), the fault of the priest is that he didn't do what he needed to in order to give those under him the best shot possible.

Again, the concern now isn't about the improperly baptized, it's about the priest not doing what he was supposed to do under their rules.

This is a lot of cope to try to paper over the fact that whatever the words of the church may be about their faith, their actions reveal their true belief is "God is an indifferent retail manager and of little consequence. What really matters is the power we wield."

 

[Zero Day Defense]

Bro if I had a nickel for every time I heard a Catholic assuredly say that me/them/someone else was going to hell, I wouldn't be rich, but I would have a shit ton of nickels.

Yeah, they're not supposed to do that according to their own church. But I've already told you a general observation of a tension between the Protestants and Catholics, and you'll definitely hear that complaint from Evangelicals and the Reformed.

This is a lot of cope to try to paper over the fact that whatever the words of the church may be about their faith, their actions reveal their true belief is "God is an indifferent retail manager and of little consequence. What really matters is the power we wield."

I can't really come to that conclusion on account of actually talking with practicing Catholics.

 

[More AWS-8Q Than You]

The important thing is that at least this time it didn't involve one half of Christendom excommunicating the other half. Yes, I know, politics, but given that the guy resigned and they had to get the Inquisition involved, I'm guessing there more to this than "oops, I used the wrong word." Catholicism prefers to keep internal things internal though, see Thomas Becket, so we may never know what the real issue was.

 

[Ughubughughughughughghlug]

In the case of what I linked to, we're talking about a drastic difference: is Christ the Creator or merely a created being?

Who cares lol

 

[The Final Troondown]

lmao when you accidentally send thousands of people to hell