Final Fantasy XIV - Kiwi Free Company

[Linako 2.0]

Hildibrand is both the best, bar none, content I've seen in an MMO while also being the most absolutely worthless thing to do.

I honestly care more about hilibrand quests than the actual MSQ

 

[PuffyGroundCloud]

HW Hildibrand also expand the inquisitor lore.
One of the character rant is pretty based tho

 

[Fcret]

while I appreciate people taking this zany game seriously, as I absolutely love it to bits, I also have to say that the end of the 2.0 arc is powerfully lame, especially compared to Heavensward and up. every time I have to sit through Gaius' ridiculous lecture about STRENGTH is the POWER to RULE I'm wondering how I ever took that shit seriously. it speaks volumes about WoWfugees that they're nerd raging about potentially missing even a single droplet of that sweet ambrosia, most if not all of WoW's writing is idiot garbage for babies, ARR must seem like High Art by comparison

Spoiler: ShB Spoilers

they even canonize that Gaius' arc is stupid when he shows up again in late Shadowbringers and spends most of his reintroduction cringing at his past self

I actually really liked Gaius' speech at the end of 2.0. He brings up a ton of fantastic points and he is ultimately vindicated later in the story in a lot of ways. Sure it's edgy 2010s redditspeak but he definitely made me think at the time, "Yeah, why am I fighting for these statelets governed by incompetent assholes who just let beast men summon world-ending gods in their backyard?"

And of course, because FFXIV isn't written by retards, all of those arguments are addressed in the story and have their own arcs cleaning it up.

 

[I'm Retarded?]

I actually really liked Gaius' speech at the end of 2.0. He brings up a ton of fantastic points and he is ultimately vindicated later in the story in a lot of ways. Sure it's edgy 2010s redditspeak but he definitely made me think at the time, "Yeah, why am I fighting for these statelets governed by incompetent assholes who just let beast men summon world-ending gods in their backyard?"

And of course, because FFXIV isn't written by retards, all of those arguments are addressed in the story and have their own arcs cleaning it up.

but it's all couched in the context that Gaius wants to unleash a weapon of mass destruction to slaughter everyone into subjugation and install himself as dictator perpetuo, with the help of his floating Snidely Whiplash talking demon friend who might as well have "I HAVE ULTERIOR MOTIVES" printed on the front of his black spiky robes, and his reasoning is that the fact that his balls are big enough to pull it off means it is not only justified but indeed incumbent on him to do so, because might makes right, and everyone else is doing it wrong anyway. it's pretty boilerplate anime bad guy clown narcissism IMO, even down to the part where you inevitably knock him on his ass while he yells B-BUT I WAS THE STRONGEEEEEST!!!! and it's given a lot more seriousness than it deserves. of course I'm not gonna say the old story didn't have anything going for it, it had a lot more moving parts than just Gaius & co., but Cape Westwind and Castrum Meridianum and Praetorium in particular are more or less a tour of some of the more tired villain tropes out there. and then Heavensward moves the central focus of the story from plucky good guys vs cartoon bad guys to a very convincingly morally gray story about generational conflict and the way history is formed into narratives, it's not even a fair comparison, much respect and love to Yoshida and The Team but that part of the game is not some of their best work, although largely because their best work is fucking incredible

E: also the Ultima Weapon/Ascian themes absolutely slap

 

[Gravemind]

and then Heavensward moves the central focus of the story from plucky good guys vs cartoon bad guys to a very convincingly morally gray story

Very convincingly right up until the point that Archbishop Thordan and the Heavens' Ward demonstrate that they will gladly kill their own countrymen in cold blood if they are either of a lower social standing than themselves (i.e., most of the lowborn) or if they're in considerably reasonable opposition towards their ultimate plan to... Establish Ishgardian superiority and create a "utopia" (unless you question said utopia, then you're fucking dead, kid) by genociding the dragons right back, doublecrossing the Ascians who helped you, and, ultimately, dooming the world because Thordan's actually retarded ass would eventually drain the world dry of its aether because he thought it was a good idea to become a Primal.

Heavensward is very easy to disassemble in some of its more inherent, ridiculous aspects, the only difference being that it weaves its narrative together with more care and engagement than ARR's. I'd argue that the one story so far that's gotten close to getting the whole "morally grey" thing right is Shadowbringers so far.

 

[I'm Retarded?]

Very convincingly right up until the point that Archbishop Thordan and the Heavens' Ward demonstrate that they will gladly kill their own countrymen in cold blood if they are either of a lower social standing than themselves (i.e., most of the lowborn) or if they're in considerably reasonable opposition towards their ultimate plan to... Establish Ishgardian superiority and create a "utopia" (unless you question said utopia, then you're fucking dead, kid) by genociding the dragons right back, doublecrossing the Ascians who helped you, and, ultimately, dooming the world because Thordan's actually retarded ass would eventually drain the world dry of its aether because he thought it was a good idea to become a Primal.

I saw this as mainly Thordan's faction of the Ishgardian elite class making a desperate dive to save the status quo, or at least the parts of it that directly benefit them, in order to secure the maintenance of their power for the foreseeable future, because they refused to even slightly loosen their grip on their status in Ishgardian society, to the obvious detriment of the nation as a whole, while Aymeric and the Fortemps Boyz etc saw the need for the elite class to bleed a little to ensure the continued existence of the state. at the conclusion of the arc, Ishgard remains a heavily stratified society with the peasants still completely at the mercy of the aristocracy, and all that's really been accomplished is the elimination of the idiots who were so captured by the fear of being dethroned they were dragging everyone down with them, and the empowerment of the segment of the elite that are willing to practice a little noblesse oblige, as well as the end of the war (which, despite all the overtures of compassion and understanding, still ended up concluding with the death of Nidhogg). and thus Ishgard is saved largely through fitful cultural reforms that may not even last the generation. it's a shit solution, and one that Aymeric clearly understands the limitations of, but the only one that's immediately workable to stabilize the state and stave off revolution from either side of the economic divide

 

[Gravemind]

(which, despite all the overtures of compassion and understanding, still ended up concluding with the death of Nidhogg)

Because Nidhogg (or rather, his lingering shade, which was implicitly a low-end Primal by some measures given the aetheric catalysts of the Eyes and his own followers' faith/desire for vengeance against mankind) chose much the same route that Thordan and the Heavens' Ward did, making enemies of his own kin just to continue wreaking his vengeance, and thus, left no other option for everyone else involved (who just wanted an end to all the violence) but to put him down for good, because he would not stop otherwise.

and thus Ishgard is saved largely through fitful cultural reforms that may not even last the generation. it's a shit solution, and one that Aymeric clearly understands the limitations of, but the only one that's immediately workable to stabilize the state and stave off revolution from either side of the economic divide

It turned from a theocracy into a republic with a two-chamber parliament, one made up of highborn representation and the other made up of lowborn representation, and the church was completely separated from matters of state. It's been proving to be a very beneficial solution so far, given the whole "system of checks and balances" framework of the political overhaul. Could it get abused and twisted at some unspecified point into the future? Certainly, just like it has in many real world cases, but it is proving to be an effective system in the meantime, as demonstrated by the steadily improving and stabilizing condition of Ishgard.

 

[Zeke Von Genbu]

Regarding HW's plot

Thordan I think deserves a little more credit then he gets, but not too much. Thordan is the "evil jrpg pope" with a small twist because I feel his general take on the situation from Ishgard's perspective isn't without merit and why he believes keeping the lie is justified. Trying to revamp society and end this war would be a colossal reform of society as a whole in a war that has had countless deaths on all sides, and would then potentially create a class war. The people would need to be willing to embrace a lot of change on many fronts to make such a reform possible without a civil war, and let's not even imagine if the peace talks with Dravania actually failed while this civil war took place.

Aymeric effectively sums up why Thordan is wrong around 3.2 I believe, and why the story punishes him and his knights of the round with death. Aymeric says something to the effect of "My father believed the people were too weak and incapable of achieving peace bearing the burden of the truth. I believe in the people, I believe they will choose the right path to everlasting peace.". Aymeric eventually is proven right that Ishgard can change if given the choice and proper guidance, and Thordan just had too little faith in his own people to achieve anything truly positive regardless of his intentions.

Thordan is effectively a man who's had his worldview upheaveled (as only a very very select group of people know the truth) upon being made the Archbishop and he and his nation are kind of in too deep to really safely do anything about it because he believes trying to uproot it would result in chaos, which it sort of does in 3.1-3.2. Hell without Nidhogg being a giant banner for everyone to shout "KILL HIM" at and to throw their anger out, I think Ishgard would still be on a brink of civil war. So to stop this, a good old fashion smiting is a great short term solution that can end all of this forever. Remove the problem so the war actually ends, bury the lie, we all go about our lives as if nothing happened is a pretty decent way to end this whole issue. Thordan like many characters though may have good intensions is ultimately corrupted by some negative emotion, in his case it'd be lust for power under the justification of "My people need me, so I must obtain absolute power to be their righteous king". Thordan lacks faith, ironically, is too arrogant, and is power hungry. So he dies, the end, roll credits.

FFXIV tends to put characters who give into negative emotions on full blast as they botch everything they try to accomplish, and are eventually punished for it in the end. This is why the WoL is the hero and why the statement 'Why doesn't the WoL just murder and slaughter literally everyone who's even slightly a problem maybe?" doesn't happen.

Spoiler: List of people who get owned for their mistakes

ARR Alphinaud is a vain little shit with delusions of grandeur, so his big brained clout chasing solution completely ruins everything, and he has to live with it all being his fault for the rest of his life especially considering the aftermaths of that event still linger to this day (Thancred, Y'shtola, and Minfillia specifically).

Raubahn was going to assault and murder Lolorito who had effectively done little wrong or illegal (not enough to deserve execution imo) in reality, but Raubahn in his anger thinks he is with Teledji (which is completely wrong) and thus for his impulsive act he loses his arm.

Ilberd wanted to liberate his homeland, but that got twisted because he believed his people didn't want it hard enough. So when he got the power to liberate he used it in probably the most chaotic stupid way possible. He just has to break several dozen Ala Mhigan omelets and endanger the rest of the world for his liberation, because by that point he couldn't care less about seeing his home land liberated he just wants people to feel the pain of his shitty life. Ilberd is forgotten in history save for a select few people who know what he did, and likely hate him for everything he did to his people and the rest of Eorzea.

tl;dr: Thordan is good by jrpg pope standards, but he is not really that morally grey. He's about as morally grey as Gaius who at least was trying to achieve something overall positive the entire time and fix a problem that plagues the world. Eorzea sucks, primals are a problem, Gaius wants to make it not suck by basically taking over and using the Ultima Weapon to get rid of the primals. You can cringe at his spiel about might makes right, or his memetic lines, but his point and overall actions have more merit then Thordan's actions.

 

[JektheDumbass]

Gaius can be a helpful chap

 

[Übertroon]

Alliance raid roasts are fun

 

[Rubedo]

I should have capped it, but got a good reaction to Vauthry's new nickname:

"Lord Fatfuck.... LEADER OF MEEEEEN!"

also

"Now Lord Fatfuck's evolving into his final form.... THE DIVA".

 

[BarberFerdinand]

Just finished Omega raid storyline. Didn't think I'd end up feeling bad for a giant metal beetle.

 

[WhoBusTank69]

Just a head's up for screenshots, you are always 1 in the party list. Supremely gay RP profile page, by the way.

 

[Gravemind]

Just a head's up for screenshots, you are always 1 in the party list. Supremely gay RP profile page, by the way.

Spoiler

Pretty fucking gay FC too, not gonna lie.

 

[Agarathium1066]

Spoiler

Ver archivo adjunto 2588373
Pretty fucking gay FC too, not gonna lie.

This is coming from an RPer to give some context: Those rank names make me want to die in minecraft and in real life. Mama mia.

 

[Sunflower Samurai]

Spoiler

Ver archivo adjunto 2588373
Pretty fucking gay FC too, not gonna lie.

and of course its in fucking Balmung lmfao

 

[Mukhrani]

I've liked most of Heavensward aside from the tiresome 'evil pope' plot twist. It's a pet peeve of mine that this trope is so common that as soon as I see a religious figure in a game I expect them to be secretly evil; at this point it would be mind-blowingly subversive to have a church in a fantasy setting that just sang songs and did bake sales.

 

[Fcret]

As much as I'd like to riff on that RP profile, it's pretty tame compared to a lot of the stuff I'd see on Crystal.

I've liked most of Heavensward aside from the tiresome 'evil pope' plot twist. It's a pet peeve of mine that this trope is so common that as soon as I see a religious figure in a game I expect them to be secretly evil; at this point it would be mind-blowingly subversive to have a church in a fantasy setting that just sang songs and did bake sales.

There's actually a great optional questline you can do that touches on the many positives of the Church of Halone and paints them more as a good organization led astray by power-hungry nobles rather than something inherently evil.

 

[PuffyGroundCloud]

As much as I'd like to riff on that RP profile, it's pretty tame compared to a lot of the stuff I'd see on Crystal.


There's actually a great optional questline you can do that touches on the many positives of the Church of Halone and paints them more as a good organization led astray by power-hungry nobles rather than something inherently evil.

That quest makes sense if you did the ARR Hildibrand as one of the character is the main NPC

 

[Kane Lives]

That quest makes sense if you did the ARR Hildibrand as one of the character is the main NPC

Actually I think you cant even get the quest without doing ARR Hildi first. I dont remember the side quest opening up for the longest time. (I had remembered wondering why they had wasted a good deal of space at the Cathedral. It wasn't till I did the Hildibrand quest that I realized what it was for).