Metal Gear Solid 2 is a steaming pile of piss

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Can someone please explain this mystery that has been bothering me since the game released and is rarely talked about.

You have two possible versions and two similar questions -

Everything is in VR - Okay so how did they wipe his memory so he doesn't know he is in VR, and at the end of the game how does he escape VR? And even if he does escape VR then he is likely in some kind of facility that he must also escape from, how does he do that? How did Snake hack into the VR world?

The events really happened - Okay so how did they wipe his memory and when was it wiped too? Does he remember nothing before he hit the ocean? How did he get there? Did someone drive him to the beach in a van? Did he just waltz into the waves in a weird suit in front of civvies? Where did he get the suit from?

Please someone stop me from wondering this every time I think about MGS2.
 
100% VIRGIN M00TY dijo:
Okay so how did they wipe his memory and when was it wiped too? Does he remember nothing before he hit the ocean? How did he get there? Did someone drive him to the beach in a van? Did he just waltz into the waves in a weird suit in front of civvies? Where did he get the suit from?
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I thought the game explained that he repressed his memories. He doesn't literally remember nothing before the mission. I doubt he waltzed into the ocean in front of civilians, he probably got into Big Shell in a similar way as Snake got into Shadow Moses.

IMO the everything is VR thing is a bad thing for some to cling to since, even if it was Kojimas intention at the time, it has obviously been abandoned as the series went on.
 
Última edición:
I think the hate on MGS 2 (mostly from US) stems from Raiden. Particularly, Raiden's voice actor. He sounds like a snot-nosed brat. He was completely shit. The man cannot do a tough guy voice, even years later (MGS4 and Revengeance) Flynn can't voice act for shit.

In Japan, MGS2 was better received. And Raiden is voiced by motherfuckin Toki of Fist of the North Star.
So, in the English version, you get a whiny brat who was lost in a battleground atmosphere, while in the Japanese version, you get a soldier that is trying to deal all the supernatural shit that is going on. (which I think, the whole atmosphere Kojima is trying to go with MGS2)
 
I never minded Raiden personally.

Although MGS3 will always be my favorite. Mostly because it was my first, works as a self-contained story and I love the general feel and aesthetics of the game. Might not have been as revolutionary or innovative as its predecessors, but it was such a quality game.
 
Overcast dijo:
I never minded Raiden personally.
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The way I've always thought of it is he's the Luke Skywalker to Snake's Han Solo.

Yeah, Han Solo is the cooler character, Raiden like Luke can be whiny, but that doesn't mean we don't like Luke either.

People were just shocked because they weren't expecting it, had Kojima maybe been more open about the new character people probably wouldn't have reacted as negatively.
 
100% VIRGIN M00TY dijo:
Can someone please explain this mystery that has been bothering me since the game released and is rarely talked about.

You have two possible versions and two similar questions -

Everything is in VR - Okay so how did they wipe his memory so he doesn't know he is in VR, and at the end of the game how does he escape VR? And even if he does escape VR then he is likely in some kind of facility that he must also escape from, how does he do that? How did Snake hack into the VR world?

The events really happened - Okay so how did they wipe his memory and when was it wiped too? Does he remember nothing before he hit the ocean? How did he get there? Did someone drive him to the beach in a van? Did he just waltz into the waves in a weird suit in front of civvies? Where did he get the suit from?

Please someone stop me from wondering this every time I think about MGS2.
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I do believe that at the time it was released it was all supposed to be a simulation, giving how meta, metaphor and political commentary heavy the final moments of the game get.

I mean, you can see the game's code scrawling through the walls of arsenal gear, you have over the top crazy stuff like Raiden single handedly defeating multiple RAYs and the entire Manhattan segment is just... off

Civillians walk around like nothing happened, even tho Arsenal Gear straight up crashed into Manhattan, and then the real Rose is there? Why, how?

Granted, I could be remembering a lot of this stuff wrong and there could be plausible explanations for all of this and what was and wasn't a simulation, but giving how again MGS2 was going to be "the last one", and then it wasn't, when MGS4 came around Koji probably said fuck it and retconned it up
 
Arrakis Sandworm dijo:
Even though the series is my favorite of all time, I really hate that they killed off Liquid. I hated the business of Liquid coming through Ocelot and hated it even more when they failed to fully follow through with the retarded idea. If that's the clownshow you came up with at least commit. Liquid was the most interesting character. Even more so than Big Boss. Only because we already knew who Boss was and what he did. If MGS4 ended with a final fight between Snake and Liquid, that would have been one of the most glorious video game deathmatches in history. Ocelot's character never really grabbed me. Cool, but I found he somehow always had some kind of plot armor. He seemed to always be perfect and never was in any true danger.
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I need to address this even though the author might be dead.

When first Metal Gears were released, there was no master plan behind it. Big Boss through his machinations "dies" to bring necessity of people like him to fight for peace. Thus, the plan of deterrent is born. In first MG's the deterrent is Metal Gear itself. Big Boss wanted to put in weigh of world peace on simple fact that nobody would attack each other if one side had the advantage, so mercenaries from 'Diamond dogs" or "Soldiers without borders" are the only eligible to handle wars to maintain peace. Think about this like in mind of Big Boss his group would only have a licence to wage war. Nobody else. Of course, nobody like that idea so his foothold in Zanzibar was destroyed, but the deterrent in Metal Gear wasn't abolished. Here comes the role of Revolver Ocelot who is the only man that got to know Big Boss personally and adores him to the point that to become one of his "sons" he surgically sews in hand of Liquid. That's how fucked up Ocelot/Adam is.

Ocelot is the only man that wants to fulfil Big Boss's last will. Even though BB's last living son is trying to stop him. Here's a catch. While Solid Snake carries genes of BB, Ocelot is carrier of memes of BB. Both are the two sides of same coin. Thats is why the fight on vessel in MGS4 is so great. One was born from blood of greatest warrior that ever walked the Earth and the other is just host of his memes.

That game denies oneself through the series. In MGS1 the doctor behind reviving Gray Fox was a men, while in MGS3 he's a woman. Some facts are misplaced, some people live despite the fact they should be dead (Meryl/Otacon or Solidus Snake). Thing is when Kojima started working on series, he only based it upon sever Western movies, some ideas from previous games (Policenauts) without intention in continuing the work. For example, in MGS2 you may think that Ocelot is possessed by Liquid but in MGS4 Ocelot states that it was just for show.
 
PetrifiedTom dijo:
In MGS1 the doctor behind reviving Gray Fox was a men, while in MGS3 he's a woman.
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In defense of the Patriots plot twist in 4, wasn't the identity of the doctor ambiguous in MGS1? Didn't they only refer to them as "Dr. Clark"?

I still think it's retarded that Dr. Clark turns out to be Para Medic, a nerdy movie geek, but if that was the case I wouldn't call it a plot hole.
 
Dr. Pasquale dijo:
In defense of the Patriots plot twist in 4, wasn't the identity of the doctor ambiguous in MGS1? Didn't they only refer to them as "Dr. Clark"?

I still think it's retarded that Dr. Clark turns out to be Para Medic, a nerdy movie geek, but if that was the case I wouldn't call it a plot hole.
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IIRC this was Kojima fanboy cope because they refer to Dr. Clark as a male in the US version and supposedly don't state a gender in the Japanese version. (although that could just be a part of how Japanese language works? I dunno)

Out of all the stupid retcons though, turning Dr. Clark into a woman would rank the lowest if it wasn't for that woman being Paramedic.
 
CreamyHerman’s dijo:
I say Death Stranding because that’s where the real circlejerk began
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Kojima has had a cult of personality circle jerking him long before Death Stranding. If you think it started with Death Stranding you haven't been paying attention.

And Keighly has been sucking him off long before he even started the game awards.

Just because the autistic fanbase were screaming for it doesn't mean he had to completely phone it in. If anything, that adds to his hackyness.

Constantly retconing and changing established lore is what made him a hack anyways, not his circle jerk (although I'm sure they helped). And the most serious offenses of this started with MGS4 and continued well into Peace Walker and MGS V, but they were even present in MGS3 if we want to get really nitty gritty about it.

Death Stranding is Kojima at his worst, but it's been a long road to get there and will only keep getting worse I'm afraid. At least in my opinion.
 
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