Fiat Chrysler proposes merger with Renault, would be third-largest automaker - Diamond-Star Motors 2.0

Fiat Chrysler proposed on Monday to merge with France's Renault to create the world's third-biggest automaker and combine their investments in the race to make new electric and autonomous vehicles.

The merged company would reshape the global industry: it would make some 8.7 million vehicles a year, leapfrogging General Motors and trailing only Volkswagen and Toyota.

Shares of both companies jumped over 10% on the news of the offer, which would see each side's shareholders split ownership in the new manufacturer.

Renault welcomed the idea. The company's board met Monday at its headquarters outside Paris to discuss the proposal and said afterward that Renault will study it "with interest." In a statement, Renault said such a fusion could "improve Renault's industrial footprint and be a generator of additional value for the Alliance" with Japan's Nissan and Mitsubishi.

Fiat Chrysler's offer comes at a key moment for Renault. The French manufacturer had reportedly wanted to merge with Nissan, but those plans were derailed by the arrest of boss Carlos Ghosn on financial misconduct charges in Japan.

Now, questions are growing over the Renault-Nissan-Mitsubishi alliance , which is the biggest maker of passenger cars in the world. While Fiat Chrysler says the merger with Renault would accommodate the alliance and lead to savings for them, it is unclear how the Japanese companies might react in the longer term to being tied to a much larger partner.

A deal would save 5 billion euros ($5.6 billion) for the merged companies each year by sharing research, purchasing costs and other activities, Fiat Chrysler said in a statement. It said the deal would involve no plant closures, but didn't address potential job cuts.

The companies are largely complementary: Fiat Chrysler is stronger in the U.S. and SUV markets, while Renault is stronger in Europe and on electric vehicle developments. Together, they would be worth almost $40 billion euros.

Analysts at financial firm Jefferies said it was "hard to disagree with the logic" of the deal as there is a strong fit in the markets each company covers and the brands they offer.
"The elephant in the room is who will run the entity," analysts Philippe Houchois and Himanshu Agarwal wrote in a note to investors.

Mergers of equals can be difficult to manage over questions of who gets the top leadership positions and which brands are promoted and invested in most. A tie-up between Daimler and Chrysler in the 1990s was billed as a merger of equals, but it collapsed nine years later amid cultural differences and recriminations.

Investors were nevertheless enthusiastic, pushing shares in Fiat Chrysler up 11% and Renault 14% in European trading.

The French government, which owns 15% of Renault, said it is "favorable" to the idea of a merger with Fiat Chrysler but wants to study its conditions more carefully, especially in terms of "Renault's industrial development" and employees' working conditions, government spokeswoman Sibeth Ndiaye said.

Such a merger would show "our capacity to respond to European and French sovereignty challenges in a globalized context," she said. "We need giants to be built in Europe."

Collaboration between automakers has taken on greater importance in recent years as they seek to build their technological capabilities in pursuit of electrical vehicles, net connectivity and artificial intelligence for vehicles. Automakers are also under pressure from regulators , particularly in Europe and China, to come up with electric vehicles so they can meet tougher climate change regulations and after scandals over the amount of pollutants engines truly emit.

The merger idea is the biggest corporate move so far by Fiat Chrysler CEO Mike Manley, who took his position after the unexpected death of the charismatic leader Sergio Marchionne last year.

What happens to jobs is likely to be a source of concern.

France's influential CGT union warned against cuts should a deal go through, and said it wants the French government to retain a blocking stake in any new company.

Matteo Salvini, the leader of Italy's rightwing populist League party and the deputy premier, said that "if Fiat grows, it is good news for Italy and Italians," though he warned a deal should protect "every single job."

In Tokyo, Nissan CEO Hiroto Saikawa wouldn't comment directly on the idea of the deal but said, "I am always open to exchanging constructive views on strengthening the alliance."
 
Agreed. But the AMC Alliance was still a good car. And who didn't have the time of their life jumping the shit out of a wood paneled AMC Eagle as a kid?

Just me? Well it was fun. Until we broke it.

Best rigs for catching mad air in a freshly harvested pea field in order: '82 Subaru GL Wagon, '69 Dodge Charger, '86 AMC Eagle, '81 Chevy Luv Mikado, '75 Ford LTD Country Squire

Now you know.

Up until 2009, I had at least one Wagoneer or Cherokee as my daily driver, camp truck, people-hauler, and SHTF vehicle.

I used to love schooling part-store snotlings on things like:

A Dodge 360 is not an AMC 360.
Jeeps had Ford ignitions, GM fuel systems, carbs, transmissions & axles (except during Chrysler years).
And let's not forget BW transfer cases with those viscous couplings.

The Wagoneer was also the vehicle in production for the longest, without any change to body/chassis, from Willys/Kaiser, to AMC, and on to Chrysler .... which killed it, despite the last SJ being it's top luxury SUV (and the only one on the market, except for Landrovers & Landcruisers).

Except for mostly cosmetic things & powertrains, a 1960 Wagoneer is exactly the same as a 1991 Wagoneer.

What I wouldn't give for another, or at least a strong 360. Those things are tugboat motors, and make all their power at humourously-low RPMs, whereas a GM V8 needs to racing.

My favorite project though was the 401 that I bored & stroked-out to 420, just for the lulz. It had an MPG of 10, at idle.... but it would also idle over near anything smaller than a Chevette in 4Lo, on an incline. It laughed at chockblocks too.
 
This reminds me of the Studebaker-Packard merger of 1954.


Cars We Remember: The Packard-Studebaker merger was doomed from the start


By Greg Zyla

Posted May 29, 2018 at 10:02 AMUpdated May 29, 2018 at 10:02 AM

Q: Greg, I enjoy your columns on the old days of automobiles and am a big Packard fan from days gone by. I grew up in the 1950s like you did, and remember these wonderful machines during my youth. Around where I lived, if you had a Packard, you were living the good life.
I do know that the Packard failed when Studebaker joined forces with them but I’d like your opinion on this merger and also some Packard and Studebaker memories, good and bad. Thanks very much.
— Sam G., Arkansas

I read in exterpt from the book "Packard" by Dennis Adler then it was part of a bigger plan, to amalgate with Nash and Hudson to form AMC. That plan was aborted due to the sudden death of AMC president George Mason who was replaced by George Romney, who'll became governor of Michigan and the father of Mitt Romney.
 
From what I've heard of Jeeps they were good when they were owned by AMC but are now just an overpriced luxury brand.

Then again my family doesn't have the highest opinion of Ford vehicles either.* My old man charmingly refers to them as Found On Road Dead *

Also,
Fucked On Race Day

One of my favorite party jokes, even better with a good accent & props:

Deep South Sheriff happens upon an accident between two pickups. He stops & gets out, hikes up his Sam Browne belt, spits, and walks over to the first truck.
Breaking out his Field Notes and a chewed pencil nub, the lawman ponders things for a country minute, before beginning to slowly write while talking to himself.


"Greeeen; gee, are, eeen.... Ford; eff, oh, are dee..... In; eye in..... Ditch; deeeee, eye, itch."

Sheriff flips his Field Notes shut, hikes his Browne belt again, spits, and walks across the road to the second truck.

"Bluuue; bee, ell, ewey.... Chevy; sea, haytch, heavy..... In; eye in..... Ditch; dee eye itch."

Sheriff finishes writing, chews the pencil for another moment while considering the mess that needs cleaned out of the ditches. Another country minute later, he looks around, notices a severed head laying in the road some distance away, and moseys over to the gore. A few feet away he stops, spits, sighs heavily, and begins writing again.

"Head; haytch, eee, aydee.... In; eye in..... Boul, eve, ahrd..... <scratches out>.... Bowl, lee, vard...... <scratches out>...."

Sheriff stops, thinks for another long minute, spits, looks both ways up the road, and swiftly kicks the head into the ditch.

"Head. in. ditch; dee eye itch."

Most new Jeeps are for soccer moms too self conscious to drive a van.

Honestly, the DC-era Grand Cherokees were quite good in terms of luxury & trail capability, easily on par or exceeding Japanese & domestic competition for that type of SUV.

I've heard a lot of serious Jeep spergs lament the Compass as the end of Jeep's true & honest "Rubicon Ready" SUVs, but it really started with the Wagoneer being killed, and ended with the Liberty (even though it did quite well OCONUS, and had a diesel option never available in the States).
 
But instead of doing it for exceptional teutonic engineering purposes
Hey! thats not nice!
Why are American cars complete dogshit?* that kills me as a Ford fan RIP Focus *
Most fords outside the Us are designed in europe.


This is the biggest shitshow ever! there is not one good car in the last 20 year between those 3 companys.
im pretty sure they are only trying to do this because they are falling behind in europe after PSA got Opel from GM for next to nothing.
 
Lexuses are just Toyotas with a different trim package. Mechanically they are exactly the same. I have no idea why they are so popular. That goes for Toyotas in general, come to think of it. They aren't as well engineered as people think. Often they go the MB route of shoehorning shit in there and making it all a maintenance nightmare. But instead of doing it for exceptional teutonic engineering purposes they do it to save a buck during assembly. Lean manufacturing. Of course that's everything now.
The ES, sure. Everything else is more related to the JDM Crown. Well, except the first generations of the SC and GS, which were absolute shit.

Renault has been making garbage cars for greasy Euro-niggas with bad credit since the 90s. They also attempted to make garbage for niggas with bad credit in America in the 80s when they bought AMC.
Funny how history repeats itself and goes full circle, whereas FCA is the distant successor to AMC. I wonder how things would be if the president wasn't murdered by communist terrorists.
 
That's a good point actually.

Why are American cars complete dogshit?* that kills me as a Ford fan RIP Focus *
I really hope that Japanese sedans don't disappear from American showrooms any time soon. Lots of people still prefer vehicles with lower centers of gravity.

The 2020 Escape does look pretty promising for people who are used to sedans...but the Chevy Equinox is still pretty tall and bulky, so unless they still plan on building Malibus for the foreseeable future they're going to have a hard time reclaiming those customers as well as Ford can.

It's also going to be interesting to see how the deaths of the Taurus and Impala are going to effect the police car industry. The Tahoe and especially the Explorer don't exactly have the best reputation for being able to execute sharp turns safely.
 
Última edición:
The ES, sure. Everything else is more related to the JDM Crown. Well, except the first generations of the SC and GS, which were absolute shit.


Funny how history repeats itself and goes full circle, whereas FCA is the distant successor to AMC. I wonder how things would be if the president wasn't murdered by communist terrorists.

The guys of Peugeot, who's Renault old rival saw this from a different eye. They suspect then Fiat-Chrysler try to grab Renault.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...enault-is-virtual-takeover-of-crosstown-rival ( http://archive.fo/4zWfZ )
Fiat Chrysler Automobiles NV’s plan to merge with Renault SA drew criticism from the French carmaker left on its own, Groupe PSA, that contrasts with backing for the deal from investors and governments.

In a memo sent to top officials of the Peugeot owner on Monday, CEO Carlos Tavares highlighted risks to the proposal. Renault was chosen mainly because its value was depressed by the troubled alliance with Nissan Motor Co. following the Carlos Ghosn affair, according to the memo. Paris-based PSA held talks with Fiat earlier this year on potential collaboration.


Future of Automobiles 'Tomorrow in Motion' Day at Paris Motor Show

Carlos Tavares
Photographer: Marlene Awaad/Bloomberg
“The transaction proposed by Fiat Chrysler therefore seems particularly opportunistic, largely to its benefit,” the note said, while acknowledging potential for savings. “For Renault, this may be an asset in discussions with Nissan, but it could also weaken the alliance or even lead to an unwinding.”

A spokesman for PSA declined to comment.

For Tavares, Fiat’s decision to pair up with Renault represents a missed opportunity. Since arriving in 2014, the 60-year-old executive -- a former protege of Ghosn at Renault -- has turned around a struggling PSA by focusing relentlessly on efficiency and scale. He held talks with Fiat earlier this year to build a new “super platform” before the Italian-American company slipped into the arms of Renault.

Now Tavares may be left with options such as a potential tie-up with Jaguar Land Rover. More than three-quarters of PSA’s revenue comes from Europe, where automakers face a consumer slowdown and a squeeze on profit margins from stricter emission regulations.

At the Geneva car show in March, it looked like Fiat and PSA would pair off. Tavares and his counterpart at Fiat, Mike Manley, spoke publicly about the desire to participate in consolidation.
But Fiat Chairman John Elkann wasn’t convinced. A deal with PSA would rely on disruptive and politically unpalatable job cuts, while Renault, based in the Paris suburb of Boulogne-Billancourt, offered a more-advanced program for electric cars and greater access to Asia through Nissan.
 
Hey! thats not nice!
Truth hurts.

I was working on a early '00s MB crossover thingy the other day. Helping somebody out. Why in gods name would you mount a wheel speed sensor like that. Especially when it has the finest angel hair leads going to it. Why? WHY? Oh yeah, so you can charge $100 a piece to replace them when something inevitably kills it and of course they are wheel specific rather than front-rear standardized. "But it's so perfectly european engineered it justifies the price." My ass. Just burning money for status to drive a pseudo minivan.

Fucking Germans. Fucking dealers. Fucking broads who buy maintenance-intensive run out luxury vehicles they can't afford.
 
Just burning money for status to drive a pseudo minivan.
those cars are pretty expensive, so 100$ for a replacement part arent too bad. I dont care about the status, but a Benz is just sooooo nice to drive and is soo comfy inside.
 
aaand its gone.

In the end, FCA decided to pull out after it emerged that the French government and unions were not convinced about the Italian-American company’s reassurances over job security at Renault.


 
I really hope that Japanese sedans don't disappear from American showrooms any time soon. Lots of people still prefer vehicles with lower centers of gravity.

The 2020 Escape does look pretty promising for people who are used to sedans...but the Chevy Equinox is still pretty tall and bulky, so unless they still plan on building Malibus for the foreseeable future they're going to have a hard time reclaiming those customers as well as Ford can.

It's also going to be interesting to see how the deaths of the Taurus and Impala are going to effect the police car industry. The Tahoe and especially the Explorer don't exactly have the best reputation for being able to execute sharp turns safely.

Most Police departments I see have switched over to Chargers. They haven't used the Taurus or Crown Vic's in years. And I can't remember the last time I saw an Impala Police converted. I can't speak to up north, but down south it's either Chargers for the expensive rides, or Malibu's or similar for the cheap ass budget shitboxes.
 
Most Police departments I see have switched over to Chargers. They haven't used the Taurus or Crown Vic's in years. And I can't remember the last time I saw an Impala Police converted. I can't speak to up north, but down south it's either Chargers for the expensive rides, or Malibu's or similar for the cheap ass budget shitboxes.
Now that I think of it, I dont think I've seen any Impalas in a long time either. But where I live they were still buying Tauruses right up to the point where they stopped making them, and Explores have been getting common too. And all the Crown Vic taxis have been replaced by Camrys and Jettas
 
aaand its gone.

In the end, FCA decided to pull out after it emerged that the French government and unions were not convinced about the Italian-American company’s reassurances over job security at Renault.


France being France. Once the whole Ghosn scandal blows off and the Renault–Nissan–Mitsubishi Alliance officially merges as planned anyway, something will come around. Maybe Macaroni will unload shares owned by the fucking French government, too.

Now that I think of it, I dont think I've seen any Impalas in a long time either. But where I live they were still buying Tauruses right up to the point where they stopped making them, and Explores have been getting common too. And all the Crown Vic taxis have been replaced by Camrys and Jettas
Hell, I see new Chevy police cars based off the Ausfag Caprice, which isn't even sold in the United States.

Crown Vics were shit, but if I had the choice of being picked up in a fucking Camry or Jetta, I'd Uber.
 
Hell, I see new Chevy police cars based off the Ausfag Caprice, which isn't even sold in the United States.

Crown Vics were shit, but if I had the choice of being picked up in a fucking Camry or Jetta, I'd Uber.
Those Australians Caprices ceased production 2 years ago. I think they were only brought here because Holden was producing them faster than they could sell them and they needed to use up all the parts they had lying around.
 
France being France. Once the whole Ghosn scandal blows off and the Renault–Nissan–Mitsubishi Alliance officially merges as planned anyway, something will come around. Maybe Macaroni will unload shares owned by the fucking French government, too.
Well this wasnt realy a mistake by the french. who wants to merge with FCA?
 
"In the end, FCA decided to pull out after it emerged that the French government and unions were not convinced about the Italian-American company’s reassurances over job security at Renault. "

It's ironic to see FIAT blabbering about job security.
Before italo-canadian manager Marchionne came to fix the issues FIAT had, the Agnellis (the family who owned the company) did nothing but blackmail the Italian government with catastrophic threats of factories closing and thousands of employees losing their jobs. The company had good mechanical engineers, but was reluctant to invest in new technologies and absolutely refused to update the design of its cars.

After president Valletta left in 1966, the council decided to give his job to Giovanni Agnelli, heir of the company, who didn't know shit about how to manage it. He came from literal years spent in travelling and partying. (from 1946 to 1959). In 1959 he was given the presidency of one of the family's financial societies (basically one of the Agnelli's safes), in 1963 he became managing director of FIAT, a role that, because of his lack of experience, had to share with another manager, Gaudenzio Bono (Agnelli was 42 then).

So, in 1966 he became president with absolute decisional power, and for the following 30 years his absurd managing risked to make the company crumble several times. In that period the cars were sold already rusty, with windows that couldn't be opened or that couldn't be closed, engines that kept malfuctioning, headlights full of water, broken brakes, cars designed by retards, not by expert designers. In the late 90s they continued to sell cars that looked like they came straight from the 80s. Except for a couple of lucky models (the Panda, a small economy car that also had a 4x4 version, was basically indestructible), their cars were shit. Sales were decreasing but nobody dared to object. So, during Agnelli's presidency, this cycle started;

FIAT: "Alas, we haven't money, we can't pay our workers."
ITALIAN GOVERNMENT: "Uh? What? Did you say you haven't money?"
FIAT; "Yes...we think we'll probably close this factory, and fire a few thousand of our employees. It's a difficult decision but we have to."
ITALIAN GOVERNMENT: "Ok, stop right there. We can help you" (Frantically injects a few billions in FIAT's dying body).

This attitude created a precedent, so every time a company was about to fail, it asked the state to solve its problems. It persist to these days: your employer is bankrupt because of their ineptitude and poor judgement so you are losing your job? You protest because the government should fix this situation.

In 30 years, Italy gave FIAT more or less 103.300 billion €. And they weren't just 'emergency measures' to save the company, but also subsidies, tax breaks, money to help older workers to retire (I'm not kidding). And...this didn't happen because Agnelli was unexperienced. It happened because he only cared about his lifestyle. He hadn't been taught to respect and care about his company. Also, FIAT had become a bank of votes for politicians. During the 'good times' there were politicians who promised jobs in FIAT to people who voted for them. Of course they gave FIAT more subsidies because of this.

After Agnelli's presidency, his nephew John Elkann took his place. He studied in the best business schools in the world, but he's not a genius. In the early 2000s, when he tried his Gramp's tactic, Italian government was like ¯\_(ツ)_/¯, then Sergio Marchionne was hired to save what could be saved. He did what he could, and he already did miracles.

Another Agnelli's heir is Lapo Elkann, who in theory was responsible of the promotion of the FIAT brand. He didn't behave responsibly (to say the least), so his family forced him to live on a budget. When he was in NY in 2016, he simulated his own kidnapping with the help of an accomplice because he had finished all the money he had.

I remember my dad's fiat. It was so crappy that he sold it before my mom's Renault, that was almost 4 years older.
 
Ah Chrysler, the "also ran" of the American Auto Industry, merged with Fiat, the laughing stock of the European Auto Industry, to create the biggest joke on both sides of the Atlantic Ocean. Honestly, the merger failing was probably a blessing in disguise. It would never have worked Chrysler should have been allowed to properly collapse back during the recession and have its remains bought out by other more successful companies, like Volkswagen. Fiat will never really make it here in America, so its merger with Chrysler was not a real boon to it; all it did was give them access to Jeep and Ram, which has kept the company solvent. When Marchionne was alive, all he did was seek another merger, because he knew he couldn't keep that house of cards standing forever. Volkswagen was too smart to take that bait, and nobody else was interested because Jeep and Ram were the only things they had that anybody else wanted.

Also, the European auto industry is a goddamn mess. Europe desire to become Captain Planet and fight global warming will probably strangle that industry, and the insane power of its unions and government meddling make it impossible for companies to slim themselves down and become more efficient and make both mergers and de-mergers a pain.
 
...and FCA and PSA are dabbling in merger talks.

Fiat Chrysler, Peugeot parent in talks to form $50B auto behemoth: Report

Fiat Chrysler and Peugeot owner PSA Group are in talks to form a $50 billion auto behemoth, the Wall Street Journal reported, citing people familiar with the matter.

Fiat Chrysler shares spiked on the news.
TickerSecurityLastChangeChange %
FCAUFIAT CHRYSLER AUTOMOBILES N.V.14.23+1.00+7.56%

The proposed all-stock deal would make Peugeot chief Carlos Tavares head of the newly formed company while Fiat Chrysler Chairman John Elkann would keep his role, the WSJ said.

A deal would give Peugeot a presence in the U.S. market, which it exited in 1991.

Combined, the two automakers sold about 5.4 million vehicles globally last year. By comparison, General Motors sold 8.4 million vehicles while Ford sold 5.9 million vehicles.

This isn’t the first time the two companies have been linked. In April, Robert Peugeot, president of the Peugeot family’s holding company, said a deal with Fiat was an option.

“With them, as with others, the planets could be aligned,” he was reported as saying, according to Reuters.

Fiat Chrysler shares are down 8.5 percent this year while Peugeot has risen 33.3 percent.
 
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