UN The People Who Think Bernie Is Moderate - To socialist candidates, even the left-most Democrat isn’t left enough.

Forget beating Trump. The Democrats are lucky if their own party doesn't implode in 2020 due to infighting and the aspirations of otherwise fringe groups.


Senator Elizabeth Warren wants new taxes on wealth. Senator Bernie Sanders wants Medicare for All. Senator Cory Booker wants guaranteed jobs. Jeff Mackler wants the elimination of the military budget, the nationalization of the energy and banking industries, open borders, the creation of a state-run health-care system, and the end of capitalism in the United States.

A member of the Trotskyist party Socialist Action, Mackler is one of a handful of true, full-fat, no-joke socialist candidates running or considering running for president in 2020. Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell looks at the Democratic primary and sees the proposed Cubafication of the country; Mackler looks at it and sees neoliberal accommodationism. “Bernie gets a little attention when he says things like, ‘Three people in the United States control half the wealth in the country,’” he told me with a chuckle. “He has no proposal to change that in any way!”

Between McConnell and Mackler, the latter probably has the better argument. Historians and political scientists—and socialists themselves—make the point that although the left has moved to the left, there is still a lot of left left to the left. Progressives have become more progressive, and Nordic-model policies more popular; membership in the Democratic Socialists of America (DSA) has boomed. But socialism—real socialism, meaning worker collectives and the nationalization of critical industries and the end of the free-enterprise model? In the presidential race, nobody is even talking about it.

Save for Mackler and people like him. The Oakland-based candidate is gearing up for his 2020 campaign for the White House, with planned rallies and meetings from Kentucky to Maine. “We don’t expect to win. We’re going to be write-in candidates in maybe a dozen states,” he said. “But we will win if we build our party.”

In Florida, Elijah Manley, a college student, activist, and former staffer for Senator Mike Gravel’s 2020 bid, is also running a socialist protest campaign. A member of the Green Party and the Socialist Party of the United States of America (SPUSA), Manley told me that his goal is to talk about justice wherever and however he can. “A lot of that comes from my background—there are issues that as a black person from the South and a queer person, I don’t think are reflected in politics,” he said, also citing the need for more focus on generational justice and the rights and representation of young people.

Read: Will the left go too far?

His campaigning has involved delineating his policy preferences, building a social-media presence, and going on Fox News to represent the socialist perspective. “One of the commentators said that people buying avocado toast at Starbucks is why they are poor,” he said, adding that he got a more receptive response on the channel than he imagined.

These candidates differ from the Democrats on policy, putting forward far, far more sweeping proposals than even Sanders has. Mackler scoffed at Warren’s plan to tax fortunes over $50 million at 2 percent a year, recalling a time he suggested a 100 percent levy on income over $150,000 a year. Manley said he supports proposals like Medicare for All and free college tuition, but nevertheless wants to keep workers controlling the means of production as a north star. “I’m not the type of person to attack other people on the left,” he said. “But those policies aren’t socialism.”

Monica Moorehead, the once and perhaps future presidential candidate for the Workers World Party, supports reparations, guaranteeing all Americans a decent standard of living, and ending the carceral state. “We see this as class struggle,” she told me. “Are you on the side of the bosses and the bankers who exploit workers around the world? Or are you on the side of working people, including people of color?” Within that class struggle, the socialists’ goal is not to hem in capitalism’s excesses, as Democrats largely want to do, but to end the hegemony of capitalism.

Of course, for many Republicans and conservative commentators, everyone from Manley to Joe Biden represents a socialist threat. “We will never be a Socialist or Communist Country. IF YOU ARE NOT HAPPY HERE, YOU CAN LEAVE!,” the president tweeted in July. McConnell has used the term to bash Democrats’ voting-rights legislation, the Green New Deal, Medicare for All, and expanding statehood to Puerto Rico and the District of Columbia, repeatedly expressing shock that the Democrats want to destroy free enterprise.

This is an old rhetorical move, not a serious piece of contemporary political analysis. As the Cornell historian Lawrence Glickman, the author of a new book on free enterprise, has pointed out, Republicans have termed whatever the Democrats have wanted as “socialism” and whomever they choose to run as a “socialist” regularly since the New Deal. Bill Clinton, Barack Obama, Al Gore, Michael Dukakis: all socialists.

“The key is the binary framing, freedom or free enterprise on one side, and any modification of that is deemed socialism on the other,” Glickman told me. “If you mess with with free enterprise, you will ultimately get through the slippery-slope process to what they posit as socialism. And socialism is more often a code word for New Deal liberalism and its descendants than actual socialism.”

Indeed, the country’s binary politics elide much of the nuance that exists on the left in other countries. Democrats have moved toward what is elsewhere often called “social democracy,” meaning a mixed economy with a robust welfare state. “It’s a term that’s common in Europe that’s never taken off here,” explains Michael Kazin, a historian at Georgetown and a longtime activist on the left. “That’s what Bernie Sanders is. Certainly, he’d be right at home in the Labour Party in Britain.” Further to the left lies democratic socialism, which supports social ownership of the economy itself.

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But these separations are not clean; the lines between social democrats and democratic socialists and progressives and New Deal Democrats are drawn and erased and redrawn over and over again. Making the whole thing more confusing is the fact that Sanders describes himself as a democratic socialist, not a proponent of social democracy. Making it even more confusing is the fact that the country’s most popular and influential socialist organization—the DSA’s membership has swelledto nearly 60,000, from just a few thousand a few years ago—endorses Democratic candidates, including Barack Obama and Sanders.

The decision is tactical, Kazin says, and serves to expand the DSA’s influence and the influence of socialist ideas. “Given we have a zero-sum political system and given the fact that the two parties are quite ideologically opposed now, I think a third party on the left would be suicide,” he told me. “It would just help Republicans, as Jill Stein did in 2016.”

Members of Socialist Action, the SPUSA, and other third parties see it differently, arguing that the Democratic Party is irredeemably compromised and that voters deserve true alternatives. “Nothing ever changes without independent mass struggle—independent of the two parties, which both represent, fundamentally, the interests of the rich,” Moorehead told me. “We can’t have a kinder, gentler capitalism.”

The socialists’ campaigns and socialist parties might not be popular. But that idea surely is, as evidenced by Sanders’s success, the populist drift of all the Democratic candidates, and the popularity of proposals like the Green New Deal and Medicare for All. Come 2020, there won’t be a socialist in the White House. But there might be some socialism.
 
Bernie is a moderate. He's on the fence between life and death.

"the popularity of proposals like the Green New Deal and Medicare for All. Come 2020, there won’t be a socialist in the White House. But there might be some socialism."
The Green New Deal was "popular", not like Medicare for All, but more like that kid in school who shits his pants "as a joke".
The article does a good job of highlighting the mess of spaghetti that is socialism in the current year. Social Democracy and Democratic Socialism aren't the same thing, eh? Sounds like they're just playing the word game to keep both the socialists and the general public happy.

Either way all this socialism talk means is more taxes.
 
Hearing Bernie being considered a moderate makes me chuckle. Also good luck commies you are gonna need it if your DSA meeting was any indication how the revolution is gonna go. All I see is a bunch of snivelling pants shitting pussies. 🤭
 
A member of the Trotskyist party Socialist Action, Mackler is one of a handful of true, full-fat, no-joke socialist candidates running or considering running for president in 2020.
If they could find a way to harness the immense energy generated by Joseph McCarthy spinning in his grave right now it would be able to power the entire continental United States for 1,000 years.
 
Universal health care, affordable college tuition and a social safety net are not any more socialist than roads, police, national defence and social security. The idea that universal health care is socialist is the greatest and most successful lie to ever to be believed in American politics. The insurance companies paid big money for that propaganda and what a ROI!

If you want a healthy, well-adjusted society you must invest it.
 
Universal health care, affordable college tuition and a social safety net are not any more socialist than roads, police, national defence and social security. The idea that universal health care is socialist is the greatest and most successful lie to ever to be believed in American politics. The insurance companies paid big money for that propaganda and what a ROI!

If you want a healthy, well-adjusted society you must invest it.
Here before you get swamped with Dumb ratings. I'm sorry you showed up here, but this is Trump Circlejerk category.
 
Bernie is a moderate. He's on the fence between life and death.

"the popularity of proposals like the Green New Deal and Medicare for All. Come 2020, there won’t be a socialist in the White House. But there might be some socialism."
The Green New Deal was "popular", not like Medicare for All, but more like that kid in school who shits his pants "as a joke".
The article does a good job of highlighting the mess of spaghetti that is socialism in the current year. Social Democracy and Democratic Socialism aren't the same thing, eh? Sounds like they're just playing the word game to keep both the socialists and the general public happy.

Either way all this socialism talk means is more taxes.

The Green New Deal is popular because no one has any clue what it entails.

A measured approach to switching to alternative energy and encouraging people to upgrade their homes and businesses for better energy efficiency could be a good boost to the economy. It could be especially helpful when the next recession hits and a lot of contractors/electricians/etc. are having trouble finding work. Programs like these generally involve capital projects paid for directly by the government in maybe the several-hundred-billion-dollar range and tax credits to home and business owners. It *would not* involve requiring literally every structure in the country to be upgraded.

I think most people assume that the GND involves normal governmental programs and policies and not the shitshow AOC vomited up. *That's* why it's popular.
 
Universal health care, affordable college tuition and a social safety net are not any more socialist than roads, police, national defence and social security. The idea that universal health care is socialist is the greatest and most successful lie to ever to be believed in American politics. The insurance companies paid big money for that propaganda and what a ROI!

If you want a healthy, well-adjusted society you must invest it.

Unfortunately, none of the DNC candidates are talking about "affordable college tuition", they're talking about completely eliminating college debt for people stupid enough to take on 6-figure debts to get degrees that have no practical application, like gender studies, racial studies, and other asinine bullshit. It's possible to get a useful and relevant degree from a state college, or to enlist for a hitch and use the GI Bill, and enter the workforce as a functional adult, burdened with relatively little debt, and equipped to enter a career with at least some earning potential.
 
Bernie's not left enough, he only wants the CEOs of all the Petroleum and Mining corporations jailed for crimes that do not exist, instead of calling for their executions.
 
What do you expect from people that are in the fringes of the DSA at best or are full balls to the wall antifa members at worst. These are people that essentially believe that if you're not living under an overpass right now, you deserve death
 
We've had socialist candidates and commie candidates since the early 20th century. They're going to get a completely insubstantial amount of votes as usual because internet "commies" will vote for Sanders and then whatever neolib candidate gets chosen over Sanders.

Even the most left leaning voters don't actually want open borders because it's suicide. The USSR most certainly didn't have open borders.
 
What’s missing from this article, and what boneheaded American Bernie supporters either don’t get or are too dumb to research, is that even social democracies are moving away from socialism!

“Democratic Socialism” where workers own part of the factory was a fun little experiment they ran in the 70ies in Europe, and it failed gloriously.

That “mixed economy” they’re talking about with state ownership? Got mostly dismantled in the 80ies and 90ies.

In “Social Democratic” Nordic countries, even the railroads are privatized these days.

But muh public healthcare! But muh Denmark! Nice try commies... The truth is that even in “social democratic” Denmark, there’s private health insurance available.

And anyone who can afford it, get it, so they don’t have to endure the waiting lists in the shitty public system.

In the other Nordic countries, they’re also increasingly moving to pay at point of service in the public healthcare system. Meaning that you pay 50$ or whatever every time you go to the doctor.

The hard truth is that public healthcare might have been an option in the US if they introduced it 50 years ago. Today it would be way too late and cost way too much money.

EDIT: Also funny how they never bring up the taxes in countries like Denmark... Income tax starts at 40% and only goes up the more you make. Sales tax is 25% on everything including food. Cars are taxed at 200%. Gas? 8$ pr gallon. And on top of that, sky high taxes on tobacco, perfume and alcohol.

You want a welfare state? Well that’s how you pay for it!
 
Bernie is a moderate. He's on the fence between life and death.

"the popularity of proposals like the Green New Deal and Medicare for All. Come 2020, there won’t be a socialist in the White House. But there might be some socialism."
The Green New Deal was "popular", not like Medicare for All, but more like that kid in school who shits his pants "as a joke".
The article does a good job of highlighting the mess of spaghetti that is socialism in the current year. Social Democracy and Democratic Socialism aren't the same thing, eh? Sounds like they're just playing the word game to keep both the socialists and the general public happy.

Either way all this socialism talk means is more taxes.
"People's Front of Judea! Fucking splinters!"

My takeaway is "Here's an even more extreme version of this shit [which will totally not happen], so Bernie good because oOrangeman Bad."

Granted, Mackler is right. They aren't socialists. They are crayon eating hustlers. Actual socialists wouldn't put up with that namby pamby shit.
 
Qft

Bernie is overdue for a reeducation and a state sponsored ballistic haircut.
Orwell wrote about his horror of the Soviets (this is a reasonably close paraphrase): "They went down the line and shot anyone with an intelligent looking face. I should hate to think I would be shot simply for being inteeligent."
 
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