💰 Grifter Weeb Wars / AnimeGate / #KickVic / #IStandWithVic / #vickicksback - General Discussion Thread

[Genkoda]

That is so Vic that I can't even.

Yeah if it was not for the deposition, I would be convinced he is flaming.

 

[Immaculate Ape]

Okay..now I am...99.99% sure that this is how all the he said she said bullshit started in regards to rumors about Vic. So it's as we suspected all along. Everyone accusing him of being a predator are only parroting other people who accuse him of being a predator without ever having any encounters with him or first hand experience with him. It's the classic case of "oh they said it so it must be true" and in desperation to be accepted into the hive mind and being cool by "sticking it to" people that they only HEARD were bad from other poeple who also never encountered or had a bad experience, they go out of their way to slander someone out of pure assumption that they are bad instead of having the critical thinking skills to only treat said person that way if so and so rumors about that person were true and verified by credible sources. Those that HAVE had personal encounters with Vic are either twisting the truth because that's what they THINK they remembered or they are doing the exact same thing as all the other idiots who just parrot ignorant fools who spout off hearsay. Is this the age we really live in? Are people really that fucking exceptional to do this?

I distinctly remember being told the story of The Boy who Cried Wolf, and it was almost always regarding telling a lie.

Now, I am not sure if anyone involved in this weird convention telephone game has ever been told that story before, but it's becoming clear that the more people cry "predator" the more they lose sight of what an actual predator is.

If we've gone so far off the rails that hugging a fan who came to see you is "predatory", then we need a new word for pedophiles getting certified as a child's card game Judge for the explicit purposes of attempting to access children.

I don't think these people quite understand that by calling everything they don't like "wolf", they're helping the real wolves hide in plain sight.

 

[EriMin]

I’m just wondering what kind of apple juice we’re talking about here.

Hello, Erica!

We've been intrigued been by the "Con Hearsey" tweets you and Stan have done so far.
Any Farms exclusive ones you wouldn't mind sharing?

I'm getting more and more sympathetic toward guests in general, honestly. The con gossip circles attack all of them, apparently. But this also explains why Vic shrugged off the kinds of rumors that chased him around. If everyone had to deal with this kind of crap in the convention scene Vic would consider it the same thing.

Hey Erica,

This is probably too personal for you to answer, so I don't mind if you ignore it, but here it goes.

It must have been a little scary at first coming out against the mob like you did. I have trouble voicing miner political disagreement to some of my friends, yet you were able to vocally drop an obstacle in the path of one of the largest, momentum driven social movements (Metoo) ever.
I have a friend who simply expressed his opinions on things (not hateful at all), and our now ex friend full on Stalin'd him out of her life, cut off contact, and told everyone in our social circles that he was a nazi.

Would you say that this whole ordeal has messed with your personal life? And if so, would you be willing to drop some examples.

Thanks.

Well, in reality nothing has really changed for me. The only thing this incident has caused is a very careful examination of where my personal information is stored and who is in my friends list. I purged my friends list on all platforms of anyone who was even tangentially related to this whole mess in order to protect my normal friends and family from any backlash. The only people I've kept on that are related are those that I trust not to screen cap every post I make.

I have the added screen that I am 1) no longer involved in the anime con scene, 2) no longer live in America, and 3) have almost no family to worry about being effected by this.

I know it's hard for people who are still in the community that is being damaged. My only suggestion is to only speak about things that you have FIRST HAND experience with. State only facts whose veracity you can attest to first hand. Weeb Wars is a lot like religion, arguing with people who believe differently from you on the subject isn't going to get you anywhere.

 

[Dopey Cunt]

I'm not sure if anyone posted this yet, but here's a video by Hero Hei where he talks about a post made where KV meme on the fact that they want Vic dead. Like actually dead:

 

[Immaculate Ape]

So do we have anyone else with an interesting con story that they'd like to share? Doesn't have to be the Pulitzer prize winning material @EriMin is giving us, heck you don't even have to had worked at the con an attendee story is just as good. I've already shared a few if mine throughout the thread, and so far this has been a riot.

Did you want a feel-good story, or a lolcow-thread worthy story?

 

[Zero Day Defense]

Okay..now I am...99.99% sure that this is how all the he said she said bullshit started in regards to rumors about Vic. So it's as we suspected all along. Everyone accusing him of being a predator are only parroting other people who accuse him of being a predator without ever having any encounters with him or first hand experience with him. It's the classic case of "oh they said it so it must be true" and in desperation to be accepted into the hive mind and being cool by "sticking it to" people that they only HEARD were bad from other poeple who also never encountered or had a bad experience, they go out of their way to slander someone out of pure assumption that they are bad instead of having the critical thinking skills to only treat said person that way if so and so rumors about that person were true and verified by credible sources. Those that HAVE had personal encounters with Vic are either twisting the truth because that's what they THINK they remembered or they are doing the exact same thing as all the other idiots who just parrot ignorant fools who spout off hearsay. Is this the age we really live in? Are people really that fucking exceptional to do this?

I don't know what the rest of you were thinking, but I just assumed that Lynn and her cabal were an anomaly of an anomaly, and even initially, I thought the issue was them being merely unprofessional while they ran a rumor mill. Like, it's one thing to not take out the brown M&Ms out a bowl of them-- it's a signal that something's terribly wrong and they're likely not living up to more important and critical aspects of the contract between guest and con, but that's just negligence.

It turns out, not only were they unprofessional, not only were they not doing their job according to their own whims, and not only were they creating egregiously disgusting rumor mills that even relied on innuendo to fight against the reputation of people they don't know... the childishness that lends to this behavior is probably a bigger issue than any of us presently realize.

It's not just people incapable of recognizing their own negligence, but warped teenagers who stayed warped in their adulthood who were actively malicious and intentionally negligent for who knows why.

I'm not sure if anyone posted this yet, but here's a video by Hero Hei where he talks about a post made where KV meme on the fact that they want Vic dead. Like actually dead:

https://youtube.com/watch?v=929pViXdX7A

It's a fair bit of nothing, honestly. They're trying to play around with the concept of death and "the end"-- he's not dead, but his career is dead... according to them.

Because they're that dumb.

Must be a slow news day. And it's already presumable that there are people among #kickvic that legitimately want Vic dead, or alternatively bear an inchoate form of that desire.

 

[Hallstein995]

Did you want a feel-good story, or a lolcow-thread worthy story?

I'll accept both, I've had my share of experience with both.

 

[Dopey Cunt]

I don't know what the rest of you were thinking, but I just assumed that Lynn and her cabal were an anomaly of an anomaly, and even initially, I thought the issue was them being merely unprofessional while they ran a rumor mill. Like, it's one thing to not take out the brown M&Ms out a bowl of them-- it's a signal that something's terribly wrong and they're likely not living up to more important and critical aspects of the contract between guest and con, but that's just negligence.

It turns out, not only were they unprofessional, not only were they not doing their job according to their own whims, and not only were they creating egregiously disgusting rumor mills that even relied on innuendo to fight against the reputation of people they don't know... the childishness that lends to this behavior is probably a bigger issue than any of us presently realize.

It's not just people incapable of recognizing their own negligence, but warped teenagers who stayed warped in their adulthood who were actively malicious and intentionally negligent for who knows why.

That's a really longwinded way to say that someone has mental health issues and are clearly a sociopath. If we spend any more time analyzing their behavior, I'm afraid a few thousand of my braincells would cease living.

 

[MagicalHopStep]

I think a big part of the problem is that too many people ALLOWED this kind of behavior. I've dealt with it my whole life. You get harassed by someone, or by multiple people, but there's always some reason why they can't be punished or even scolded for it. Like, when Lynn and her friends were harassing me within Tekko, Tekko was still a fledgling con. It had a small, close-knit staff. Firing or even scolding someone meant risking losing friends and/or staffers you desperately needed, because if one person left or was fired, they might take more with them. In Lynn's case, she was also a Department Head and running a room that required a lot of equipment and technical knowledge that not a lot of people had at the time. She was also poised to delete the whole contest if she was made angry.

But I've dealt with stuff like this on places like message boards, too. One victim VS five bullies. Lose one new person or lose five longtime members.

 

[Nontransferable]

Okay..now I am...99.99% sure that this is how all the he said she said bullshit started in regards to rumors about Vic. So it's as we suspected all along. Everyone accusing him of being a predator are only parroting other people who accuse him of being a predator without ever having any encounters with him or first hand experience with him.

Jamie Marchi's DMs where she hopes a victim would come forward shows me their thought process. They feel justified in overblowing events or outright inventing them because they think that Vic did something to someone.

 

[I can't imagine]

I'm getting more and more sympathetic toward guests in general, honestly. The con gossip circles attack all of them, apparently. But this also explains why Vic shrugged off the kinds of rumors that chased him around. If everyone had to deal with this kind of crap in the convention scene Vic would consider it the same thing.

Like most anything dealing with people, it's a mixed bag. I've dealt with con guests from a variety of media in various capacities, from fan to sponsor to staff. Most are at least somewhat professional when dealing with the money people, though there have been exceptions. With staff gofers and the like, some treat them politely and others treat them borderline disdainfully. Department heads and the like are usually treated well enough, though obviously most of their interactions are one wanting something from the other. Japanese guests are almost universally nicer to everyone.

The biggest thing is that sometimes, even the best of guests can have a bad interaction, misunderstanding, or maybe they just were in a bad mood that day and said something they shouldn't. That story gets told to someone, it gets told to someone else, gets exaggerated, and so on. I've had bad experiences, and I've definitely told people about them. Could that have happened to Vic? Almost certainly. Does that mean he did something wrong? Maybe. At the same time, the dude's only human, so maybe he sometimes yelled at someone for no reason or something. It happens.

So do we have anyone else with an interesting con story that they'd like to share? Doesn't have to be the Pulitzer prize winning material @EriMin is giving us, heck you don't even have to had worked at the con an attendee story is just as good. I've already shared a few if mine throughout the thread, and so far this has been a riot.

Here's a fun one. Kenichi Sonoda (Gunsmith Cats, character designer Bubblegum Crisis) was a featured guest at an early convention. Following the incredibly long flight from Japan to the U.S., his first desire upon landing was not getting something to eat, or going to his hotel room. He wanted to visit a gun range. If you know his work, this probably isn't too surprising; he really enjoys his firearms. Still, I always thought it was funny that it seemed like the thing he most looked forward to about the trip was getting to shoot some guns.

 

[FailedStudentOfTheKarmaSu]

I will say, having experience with similar shit to this... advice for your friend: move on.

You learn very quick who was a friend and who was a friend-of-convenience, in situations like this. Especially if the person was being made a pariah for a reason that does not warrant complete and utter social obliteration.

The people that actually know/care about you will stand by you and eventually it'll be a learning opportunity to look back and figure out the tell-tale signs of people who really don't care about you, but just are sticking by because they get something out of you.

It'll help form more meaningful relationships in the future, and you'll watch as those people who melt-down on every single thing they don't like just tailspin into pathetic pits of despair.

Best thing you can do to piss off people that hate you is just succeed. Tried and true method.

Oh my friend has handled this well. He was confused and a little sad when she posted her condemnation of him, but he has continued to maintain that if she wanted to be friends again he'd be happy to. I honestly think I was way more angry on his behalf than he was.

The thing is we were all real friends once. She's my cousin, and we had been quit close since we were children. There was a time when she was kinda cool, and would crack edgy jokes along with the rest of us.
But after she went to university, she 100% adopted this man hating brand of feminism. Her beliefs now tick every box you would think, Fat acceptance, million genders, communist, hates cops, hates straight white men.
She's always been prone to adopting whatever made her feel good and fit in.
After our grandmother died, to cope with here death, she suddenly went from atheist to hard core christian. Then after a few years she dropped it.
To be clear, I'm not trying to dig religious people, but I think it says somthing about her charactar that she is willing to flip flop her worldview based on emotional and social pressures.

I'm basically the only staight white guy she associates with outside of her immediate family, and I dont really have the patiance for her any more. I feel kinda mean saying that, cause we were close, and I genuinely cared/care about her, but the fact is, if I was honest with her about my opinions like my freind was she would condem me too, and I'm not interested in starting family drama. We're pretty close nit.

 

[TheClappening]

I'll accept both, I've had my share of experience with both.

Here's one.

I've been going to SacAnime for the past 6 years or so. It's a twice-yearly con, and except for maybe one year, Vic has been to one of the cons. I try to sit in at least one of his panels even if the panel focus wasn't necessarily something I followed strongly (e.g. FMA or Star Trek Continues). He's always super animated and engaging with fans, and unless he's cohosting a panel with other guests, he's walking up and down the aisles talking to people.

Never been to his Sunday services, but I can try if I can fit my own church schedule (and if he's still doing it). He was at SacAnime Winter 2019, which was January 4-6 (which was right before everything collapsed), and I noticed he's not listed for Winter 2020. When I did meet him at World Super Con a few months back he said he had a good relationship with the SacAnime organizers and hoped to be back.

The one time I got an autograph from him, he phoned an acquaintance of mine and left a voice mail in a character voice. Didn't charge me for it.

And yes, his pants have been faaaaabulous for those past 6 years.

 

[Dopey Cunt]

I think a big part of the problem is that too many people ALLOWED this kind of behavior. I've dealt with it my whole life. You get harassed by someone, or by multiple people, but there's always some reason why they can't be punished or even scolded for it. Like, when Lynn and her friends were harassing me within Tekko, Tekko was still a fledgling con. It had a small, close-knit staff. Firing or even scolding someone meant risking losing friends and/or staffers you desperately needed, because if one person left or was fired, they might take more with them. In Lynn's case, she was also a Department Head and running a room that required a lot of equipment and technical knowledge that not a lot of people had at the time. She was also poised to delete the whole contest if she was made angry.

But I've dealt with stuff like this on places like message boards, too. One victim VS five bullies. Lose one new person or lose five longtime members.

That kind of mentality, while I understand why some people handle things that way, truly and utterly disgusts me. It's probably my own personal hang up but seeing people completely throw away their integrity and pride to throw people who are in need to the wolves to satisfy a group of bullies and people who are absolutely NOT worth it rubs me the wrong fucking way. It beats down people from reporting things that they should. It makes actual victims too afraid to speak up lest they are victimized even further by the reprehensible evils who exploit their vulnerability by threatening to oust them from a friend circle they thought they felt secure in. It pushes up people who are bullies, who are sociopaths, who step on the heads of everyone they think lesser to them while surrounding themselves with their worshippers and people who enable their inhumane and abusive actions to power and status that they should NEVER be allowed to have. I can't abide by this behavior. I despise it as it was designed to stomp down the unfortunate. It makes my stomach turn.

 

[MagicalHopStep]

That kind of mentality, while I understand why some people handle things that way, truly and utterly disgusts me. It's probably my own personal hang up but seeing people completely throw away their integrity and pride to throw people who are in need to the wolves to satisfy a group of bullies and people who are absolutely NOT worth it rubs me the wrong fucking way. It beats down people from reporting things that they should. It makes actual victims too afraid to speak up lest they are victimized even further by the reprehensible evils who exploit their vulnerability by threatening to oust them from a friend circle they thought they felt secure in. It pushes up people who are bullies, who are sociopaths, who step on the heads of everyone they think lesser to them while surrounding themselves with their worshippers and people who enable their inhumane and abusive actions to power that they should NEVER be allowed to have. I can't abide by this behavior. I despise it as it was designed to stomp down the unfortunate. It makes my stomach turn.

Man, do I agree. Like, in some cases, I can understand that mentality too. I can see why Tekko didn't want to risk so much as scolding Lynn and her friends or telling them to stop, But then I find out the one Security Head I reported it to first had a huge fanboy crush on one of my harassers, or I get banned from the con I've been attending every year since it started by a corrupt con chair trying to avoid Lynn's behavior getting expose. I've dealt with this kind of injustice all throughout my school years, and even now, as an adult, all over the internet. People need to start doing their jobs, or things are only going to get worse.

That's why, more than anything, I hope Vic doesn't back down. Even if he wins this lawsuit, I'm terrified he'll let them off or encourage us all to forgive them, evne though they've showed no signs of remorse, tried to ruin and even kill him, and harassed us as well. Actions need to have consequences. People like these will never learn their behavior is not okay if they're never punished for it.

 

[AnOminous]

Still, I always thought it was funny that it seemed like the thing he most looked forward to about the trip was getting to shoot some guns.

Sounds like an honorary American.

 

[Immaculate Ape]

I'll accept both, I've had my share of experience with both.

I'll give you one of both... (These aren't Vic situations, but general convention experiences. Hoping to have Vic as a guest in the future)

Dr. Feelgood: So one year of our convention, we had a bunch of new vendors/artists to the show. Parking is always usually a headache around our area but there are a number of parking garages nearby, though some are exceptional. A couple of the artists carpooled to the event, they lived a few hours out of town, and they parked in one of the lots that closes after a certain time of the day.

Of course, they failed to read the signs posted everywhere that the doors close and you can't get your car out after 6pm. The convention ran until 9pm. So, they went to go get their car and found out that they were shit-outta-luck until the next day.

They came back to the event-space and lucky enough a number of staff, including myself, were still cleaning up and decompressing from the day. They were losing their minds because this parking garage (not anywhere near us or affiliated with us) basically locked their car away for the night and they had no way to go back home.

This was one of our early years of the convention, and knowing how exceptional some people can be. I wanted to make sure we at least did all we could to leave a good impression.

So, I told them I'd take care of things; walked with them down to the hotel that was a few blocks away and paid for a hotel room for them to stay the night. They weren't convention guests, they weren't the biggest names in their field, but they were paying customers of our event, so I figured it'd be the good thing to do.

They were grateful, and only ever came back one other time but at least it was appreciated.

I'll accept both, I've had my share of experience with both.

Spergatory: So, we've had a group of people that really don't like the convention owner, and despite the fact that neither he nor the convention have done anything at all, continue to try to get us shut down because SJWs never stop, they only keep doubling down.

To preface this next part, our convention has an industry-standard anti-harassment policy. We copied ours from the big-boy conventions, and our venue has in-house security staff - so none of our staff need be trained on handling procedures, we just direct it to the on-site security.

So, leading up to the convention in one of our volunteer meetings, we had a handful of brand-new volunteers join up out of the blue, which seemed great. During their first meeting, someone brought up that we need a better harassment policy. (I wasn't at this particular meeting, but from all accounts I hear it basically was the same)

The convention owner was present at the meeting and he flat-out declined to entertain the idea, which sparked an outrage with the new volunteers. The argument that a particularly neck-beardy gent brought up is that we need to be "pro-active" in our policy, and have our staff actively screen and prevent harassment before it happens (I'm not kidding, he wanted us to Minority Report things).

Our staff tried to explain that we're absolutely not going to put 15 year old, untrained volunteers in harms-way by telling them to get between a heated situation. We told them that they are to bring up any concerns to the on-site security - that wasn't good enough.

That sparked the new volunteers to leave, and the same day, a thread on social media popped up saying how our convention wasn't going to enforce a harassment policy without being paid for it.

After a few days of "outrage" on social media, all of it turned out to be impotent. The day of setup, the neckbeard "volunteer" showed up at the venue and was taking notes and generally just being a creepo stalker. Because the building is public access, we couldn't have him removed so we just gave security a heads up and they watched him.

After a couple hours of him skulking around, a security guard started following him around and the idiot copped attitude with the guard, and wrote down his badge number.

The guy skulked around taking notes for 8 hours until the building closed to the public and was asked to leave.

The day of the convention, he tried to rally a protest and only he showed up to his 'protest'. When he discovered that he got 0 traction, he sulked and left without so much as a whimper.

Funniest part about it, is we found out that he was a gay-op from the group who hated our convention. He was supposed to be a plant in our volunteer group to start up shit and failed spectacularly.

Needless to say, we're revising our volunteer process for next year.

 

[Dopey Cunt]

Man, do I agree. Like, in some cases, I can understand that mentality too. I can see why Tekko didn't want to risk so much as scolding Lynn and her friends or telling them to stop, But then I find out the one Security Head I reported it to first had a huge fanboy crush on one of my harassers, or I get banned from the con I've been attending every year since it started by a corrupt con chair trying to avoid Lynn's behavior getting expose. I've dealt with this kind of injustice all throughout my school years, and even now, as an adult, all over the internet. People need to start doing their jobs, or things are only going to get worse.

That's why, more than anything, I hope Vic doesn't back down. Even if he wins this lawsuit, I'm terrified he'll let them off or encourage us all to forgive them, evne though they've showed no signs of remorse, tried to ruin and even kill him, and harassed us as well. Actions need to have consequences. People like these will never learn their behavior is not okay if they're never punished for it.

Yes, we're all hoping that Vic has success long after his inevitable Vic-tory. The fact that he is fighting it though is monumental. I know it's been stated a lot, but just the simple action of fighting back and showing defiance in the face of a horde of people who want to lynch him has exposed the majority of his accusers as people who are fundamental flawed in every conceivable way and the longer this goes on, the more unhinged and desperate they become and that in turn undoes them for they are showing the world their true colors. It's very sad seeing VAs and the community we once loved come apart at the seams but I think once all the corruption has been outed and dealt with, the community will be better as a whole after the healing process. I truly hope that after all of this is over, Vic doesn't give up on voice acting and continues to pursue roles and I really hope that he is given more business prospects. I'll continue to support him, no matter what.

 

[TJ-Weber]

Yes, we're all hoping that Vic has success long after his inevitable Vic-tory. The fact that he is fighting it though is monumental. I know it's been stated a lot, but just the simple action of fighting back and showing defiance in the face of a horde of people who want to lynch him has exposed the majority of his accusers as people who are fundamental flawed in every conceivable way and the longer this goes on, the more unhinged and desperate they become and that in turn undoes them for they are showing the world their true colors. It's very sad seeing VAs and the community we once loved come apart at the seams but I think once all the corruption has been outed and dealt with, the community will be better as a whole after the healing process. I truly hope that after all of this is over, Vic doesn't give up on voice acting and continues to pursue roles and I really hope that he is given more business prospects. I'll continue to support him, no matter what.

I guess its poetic that one of the most beloved figures among fans has to become a figure to right wrongs in the anime community, but for the wrongs committed against him most of all, giving him skin in the game.

 

[Geese Howard]

So do we have anyone else with an interesting con story that they'd like to share? Doesn't have to be the Pulitzer prize winning material @EriMin is giving us, heck you don't even have to had worked at the con an attendee story is just as good. I've already shared a few if mine throughout the thread, and so far this has been a riot.

Several years ago, I was tour managing a Japanese musical act that was a guest at Anime Matsuri. It was, without a doubt, the worst experience of my career to date.

One of the many lowlights of the weekend was getting to see convention founder John Leigh tell a teenage girl he was bisexual in an extremely awkward attempt to hit on her while his wife was taking a nap ten feet away from him. I don't think he sealed the deal.

A slightly more entertaining memory from the same convention was when I had to mediate a fight between the act's Japanese production manager and one of the convention's on-site live videographers in the middle of the concert. The production manager got fed up with the cameraman climbing on the drum riser to get a better angle and punched him in the back of the head. I convinced the cameraman it was a customary Japanese greeting.