General Wrestling Discussion

Cody, the Young Bucks, they get it. I really think the Hot Topic deal made them all realize that the business is capable of being changed into a millennial pop culture thing.

Really the success of AEW is sorta a series of events that fell into place. This is going to be a long post, so if you're not a sperg for wrestling like me you can skip it:

In 2010, Colt Cabana reaches out to a t-shirt maker on behalf of his then-friend, CM Punk. Punk needs a custom-made shirt that says "I BROKE BIG SHOW'S HAND", and wants to commission it himself. Today, that t-shirt maker is ProWrestlingTees.com. Combined with Colt's move into podcasting, Cabana also uses the t-shirt maker to make his own merch much more easily than before, and starts to make a very good living for himself as an independent wrestler with various other interests, thus demonstrating that it is, indeed, possible to hustle and make a living outside the WWE or, at that time, TNA.

If we really want to trace things back, I think we should start at Punk's pipebomb promo. Technically we can go way back to, as mentioned before, Omega leaving Deep South Wrestling and taking a chance on working Japan full time, but that didn't necessarily get the ball rolling on all this happening, it just put Kenny in the right place to be there when stuff did start taking shape and he could actively participate in furthering it. That promo, particularly "Maybe I'll defend the belt in New Japan Pro Wrestling...maybe I'll go back to Ring of Honor...", was the moment even the most casual WWE fan now had the prospect of looking at the wider wrestling world so clearly placed on TV, as it appeared the potential for Punk showing up in either place could be integrated into a WWE main event storyline. It didn't lead to that, obviously, but you have to think it got a lot of attention on those places.

It also just so happened that around that time was when NJPW was getting its renaissance on track, with Tanahashi and Nakamura firmly established as their top stars (the year began with Tanahashi dethroning Kojima for the IWGP title at Wrestle Kingdom V) and the Kidani-led project to get Okada and Naito in the main event just about to get underway, particularly Okada's return the next year. That said, yes, it has to be pointed out that at this time Okada was in TNA getting absolutely nothing to do while on excursion, but it was during this time and while in TNA that he made contact with people like the Bucks. ROH, meanwhile, gets bought by Sinclair near this time, in June of 2011, and while Sinclair has clearly never had designs on pumping in enough money to get ROH to the next level, it at least stabilized the company and turned it into a more secure place to get full time work for some wrestlers. Things remain pretty stable for the next couple of years, until early 2013: NJPW books an angle where Prince Devitt betrays Ryusuke Taguchi, teams up with Bad Luck Fale, and starts making little finger gun gestures at the camera and toward his opponents, leading to not only a hugely successful foreign heel stable being formed, but having Bullet Club serve as a sort of gateway for western fans to start noticing NJPW more, while also offering more full-time roster spots to foreign talent. Early in the stable's run, Okada, just over a year since his return from excursion in TNA, recommends that NJPW bring the Bucks in to join the gaijin stable as their junior heavyweight tag team.

2013 is also around the time that the storyline begins that eventually gets Cody into his Stardust gimmick, an idea he runs with at first, but eventually leads to diminishing creative returns. Attempts to get to work more with his brother, to integrate his father, and to get his ideas heard and taken seriously in WWE aren't really working the way he wants them to, and frustration is building for him. Around this time, Ring of Honor and New Japan begin a working relationship that sees talent exchanges, Young Lion excursions, and each promotion's belts defended on the other's bigger cards at times. The Bullet Club brand begins to spread with more North American exposure via this relationship. It is notable that TNA has slipped considerably during this time, and ROH, while bigger than ever, is limited in their growth, again, due to Sinclair not looking to invest too heavily in it. A bit later, AJ Styles can't come to an agreement with TNA on a new contract and leaves for NJPW, suddenly bringing a whole lot of new eyes to the product as he joins Bullet Club the same night that Devitt has his final match before leaving for NXT. AJ main events, wins the IWGP title, and soon Wrestle Kingdom 9 is getting aired on American PPV through Global Force Wrestling (no, seriously, that's who allowed it to happen), which just so happens to feature an IWGP Jr. title match involving a newly-signed and heel-turned Kenny Omega, who's immediately spending a whole lot of time around the Young Bucks, the trio quickly christening themselves the "Elite" squad within Bullet Club.

2015: Samoa Joe leaves TNA, like AJ Styles before him, and returns to Ring of Honor unannounced. Shortly afterward, Joe arrives in NXT unannounced. While WWE quickly used a clause in Joe's contract to lock him into an exclusive deal, the message is clear - if you're a big enough name and want to bank on yourself, the wrestling terrain is shifting to the point where you can negotiate the kind of contract that wouldn't have been imagined possible just a couple of years earlier. Next domino to fall: AJ wants to get back to spending more time working in the United States, and is looking to either sign with WWE or return to TNA on a better deal now that he's upped his name value again. He approaches Matt Jackson about coming with him as a package deal, but Matt tells him that while he's grateful, he and Nick had just signed new contracts with ROH and NJPW. AJ instead departs at just about the same time and negotiates new deals alongside Bullet Club members Gallows and Anderson, instead, to get them all into WWE. This opens the door to Omega getting booked to forcibly remove Styles from Bullet Club and assume leadership over the group, and NJPW is quick to throw their booking behind him, putting him over Hiroshi Tanahashi for the Intercontinental title in his first marquee match as a heavyweight and having him become the first gaijin to ever win the G1 tournament when it's held that summer.

Seeing the writing on the wall, the final piece gets moved into place: Cody Rhodes is pushed to his limit with WWE, and wants out. He leaves, and he makes no bones about wanting to experience all the growing international and indie scene has to offer, even becoming the first wrestler to perform at WWE's Wrestlemania, TNA's Bound for Glory, ROH's Final Battle, and NJPW's Wrestle Kingdom in less than one year. He joins Bullet Club during this time and finds kindred spirits with the Elite; while often booked as adversaries on-air, the group grows close, with Cody even becoming a regular on the burgeoning "Being the Elite" YouTube channel, which starts to shift from a travelogue and documentary of life as a multi-continent wrestler to a regular vehicle for storylines, comedy, and character development.

The same night that Cody debuts in NJPW, Kenny Omega also has his first ever match against Kazuchika Okada. The "Six Star Classic" creates waves around the wrestling world, and the paradigm of what people are expecting from their wrestling is shifted. Meanwhile, Chris Jericho, content to just work WWE now and then to mostly promote new tours for Fozzy, has the idea for a "Jericho Cruise", featuring bands and pro wrestling from around the world, including NXT. WWE refuses, Jericho gets annoyed, and soon he's reaching out to New Japan through Don Callis about facing Kenny Omega at Wrestle Kingdom 12. At the same time the Elite group just gets bigger and bigger, and soon, alongside Marty Scurll and Adam Page, they're getting merchandise deals at Hot Topic for themselves and New Japan, they're getting Pop Vinyl figures, and they're getting offers from all over, including from WWE. The Bucks make public that they're interested in getting to spend less time traveling across the ocean, but the group decides they're going to do all they can to stick together, eventually getting the idea that between them they had enough talent and contacts within the industry to put together something bigger. Cody cooks up the idea for All In, and Dave Meltzer's famous tweet about ROH or any non-WWE company not being able to fill a 10,000 seat venue in 2018 gives Cody the chance to take that idea public. The show, done through ROH but also including talent from all over the growing indy scene, is a hit, and becomes a proof of concept for a new promotion.

Finally, in late 2018 and early 2019 we get the Bucks not getting the exact contract offers they're seeking from ROH and NJPW, Tony Khan getting involved, and that's that.


So AEW is in large part about Bullet Club's evolution, the limits Sinclair placed on ROH, the fall of TNA, a missed connection where AJ might've gotten the Bucks into WWE, Cody and Jericho getting sick of WWE's stifling creative environment, and then getting the right combination of personalities all getting friendly with one another, along with them connected with a long time pro wrestling fan with very deep pockets, with a ton of that stemming from CM Punk kind of giving fans a chance to see non-WWE wrestling as cool and counterculture following the pipebomb promo.
I wouldn't be shocked to eventually find out Meltzer had a big part in getting people in contact with people through various parts of all this, too.
 
I always thought AEW was a pure play against the casuals and disaffected smarks in their 30s and 40s that stopped watching WWE in the past few years, but I discounted the fandom and Funko Pop and Hot Topic angle. If AEW can get both these types of people watching, they really could build into something.

The best thing AEW has going for it is that TNT's Wednesday nights are wide open if they go down the Wednesday route. There's nothing on but crummy movies with an hour of ads stuck in them and syndicated television shows airing on Wednesday in prime time for TNT. They haven't got a single show in the top 50 on Cable in Wednesday night prime time, the bar for AEW to clear is nonexistent. WWE's Smackdown show on the other hand has FOX execs wanting 3+ million out the gate. That's an awful lot of pressure. RAW doesn't even do those numbers, and Smackdown has been below 2 million for 6 of the last 8 weeks.

I think this fall there will be lots of reports of how TNT is pleased with the AEW numbers and how FOX is grumbling about the Smackdown numbers.
 
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Who do you think buys Funkos?

Those are who AEW are going to cater to. Sure it's going to have great fucking wrestling, but I think it's a mistake to categorize it as a super indy like what ROH used to be or NXT pretends to be. I think they're trying to match the current zeitgeist in the 18-34 demographic, they're marketing themselves like a revolution, they're trying to be ECW in the sense of promoting themselves as a professional wrestling promotion for our times.
 
Stomping Grounds wasn't too bad in the end, certainly better than the card suggested.
Not sure why people are angry about Lacey being the ref either, as in kayfabe it makes perfect sense.

Its putting Seth Rollins in a comedy romance storyline where people are making fun of him for having a small dick, and it continues Seth/Baron and Becky/Lacey, both of which stink and have no kayfabe reason to happen anymore. Becky has beaten Lacey by making her tap out at back to back PPVs and Seth beat Corbin better than clean in back to back title matches.

This reeks of Stephanie McMahon to me, it sucks.
 
Total attendance for Stomping Grounds was 6000-6500, no WWE numbers came out. WWE after all its production and staging and all that wanted to run it as about a 16,000 seat venue. They did buy one get one free sales and comped tickets in Washington pretty heavily, tickets sold that weren't the BOGO deal are speculated to be around 4000 or so.

I thought the crowd was pretty into it and it didn't seem that barren, and I overall liked it, but damn. That's just shocking numbers.

Every singles champ in the company is now a face, a while ago every champion on the mainbrand apart from Naomi as Smackdown woman's champ was a heel.

Seth Rollins
Kofi Kingston
Becky Lynch
Bayley
Finn Balor
Ricochet

I hope this means they give Samoa Joe the really strong booking they gave to Kofi and try to build him as Seth's new feud. Another thing people are talking about is an AJ Styles heel turn and starting up something like the Bullet Club again with Ricochet as a member and feuding with Seth and the rest of the champions, that'd be cool, too. This Baron Corbin stuff is the pits.
 
Its putting Seth Rollins in a comedy romance storyline where people are making fun of him for having a small dick, and it continues Seth/Baron and Becky/Lacey, both of which stink and have no kayfabe reason to happen anymore. Becky has beaten Lacey by making her tap out at back to back PPVs and Seth beat Corbin better than clean in back to back title matches.

This reeks of Stephanie McMahon to me, it sucks.


But for Baron to pick Lacey makes sense, whereas the common thought that it would be Brock made zero sense. Not that he'd have shown up for a B tier PPV anyway. Don't think this has anything to do with Steph - if it did she would have made herself the ref, beaten up Becky then spent 10 minutes chewing them out on Raw.
 
For some reason, I'm not able to insert quotes.
@PS1gamenwatch I agree, and it's crazy to think that between Eddie Guerrero and Chris Benoit's deaths, Kurt Angle could have been another wrestler to die in that time. That was the reason he was released, iirc, WWE were afraid of Angle possibly dying while under contract to them, and the other part was that Angle didn't want to go to rehab.

Angle's lucky that he didn't die or kill someone through his DUIs in TNA. Oddly enough, most fans (that I knew, anyways) thought that Angle going to TNA was a very positive move, but Bryan and Vinny were expecting him to die there, and apparently the reaction (to Angle signing with TNA) on the wrestling observer board was also negative.

It's easy to listen to this and think "oh, these guys look like such idiots now, Angle's fine" but just remember the time of the audio. There were reasons to be worried.
 
For some reason, I'm not able to insert quotes.
@PS1gamenwatch I agree, and it's crazy to think that between Eddie Guerrero and Chris Benoit's deaths, Kurt Angle could have been another wrestler to die in that time. That was the reason he was released, iirc, WWE were afraid of Angle possibly dying while under contract to them, and the other part was that Angle didn't want to go to rehab.

Angle's lucky that he didn't die or kill someone through his DUIs in TNA. Oddly enough, most fans (that I knew, anyways) thought that Angle going to TNA was a very positive move, but Bryan and Vinny were expecting him to die there, and apparently the reaction (to Angle signing with TNA) on the wrestling observer board was also negative.

It's easy to listen to this and think "oh, these guys look like such idiots now, Angle's fine" but just remember the time of the audio. There were reasons to be worried.
yeah I totally expected Angle to die in TNA, either in the ring or outside mischief
 
yeah I totally expected Angle to die in TNA, either in the ring or outside mischief

He had all those back and neck injuries and one of his favorite spots to do in that promotion wasn't just top rope moonsaults, but moonsaults off cages! Anybody with any sense was queasy watching him do all those high risk moonsaults.
 
On a related note, could David Benoit still have a chance in pro wrestling in spite of what happened? I don't know if anyone has ever seen Chris's eldest son on Twitter but dude shares a lot of wrestling content and has a major love for the business. Thing is, comparisons to his father would already be inevitable even if not for his father's infamy in death.

Not to mention dude looks exactly like Chris:

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So could there ever be a day where he has a spot on the roster if he earned it? Or would the way his dad's life ended hang so low over his career that it'd be over before it started?
 
I think this fall there will be lots of reports of how TNT is pleased with the AEW numbers and how FOX is grumbling about the Smackdown numbers.

Again, I never thought I would see a Second Wrestling Wars WITH ALMOST THE SAME PLAYERS. What a timeline we live in.

On a related note, could David Benoit still have a chance in pro wrestling in spite of what happened? I don't know if anyone has ever seen Chris's eldest son on Twitter but dude shares a lot of wrestling content and has a major love for the business. Thing is, comparisons to his father would already be inevitable even if not for his father's infamy in death.

Not to mention dude looks exactly like Chris:

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So could there ever be a day where he has a spot on the roster if he earned it? Or would the way his dad's life ended hang so low over his career that it'd be over before it started?

The only chance I see him having a career is if he does not use his real name and constantly uses different ring names or he becomes a masked wrestler.
 
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I know it ain't gonna happen but pulling for Joe to beat the living shit out of Kofi and win the belt. Even if he ends up losing at Summerslam to Roman or even Brock. It would be something special for Joe. At this point in the company he is in being a transitional champ is really something for him. Maybe get the title back at Survivor Series...lose it at the Rumble type shit. I know Vince ain't having any of that shit but one can still hope right? maybe just invest totally in Joe for 5-6 months. If not I hope Joe at least stays in the world title picture til he retires. Kinda like Kane once was way back when. Give him a proper send off unlike Kane though say if all my wishful doesn't come to be at Mania next year. I would be satisfied him and Ricochet once more too. That has more than potential there too. Like Last Man Standing or Ladder match. Thoughts are all over the place but Joe deserves that much. He ain't got 10 more yrs so I gotta hope.
 
Total attendance for Stomping Grounds was 6000-6500, no WWE numbers came out. WWE after all its production and staging and all that wanted to run it as about a 16,000 seat venue. They did buy one get one free sales and comped tickets in Washington pretty heavily, tickets sold that weren't the BOGO deal are speculated to be around 4000 or so.

I heard the RAW after only had a crowd of 3,500.
 
I think Benoit could have a real career with a mask or a freakshow career without. Like, he does a trio with Invader 1 and Angel o Demonio
 
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