Disaster #MeToo Backlash In Corporate Canada Sees Women Locked Out - Karma's a bitch; what goes around comes around; etc

https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2018/08/02/metoo-backlash-corporate-canada_a_23494668/

Women in business say they are facing a "chilling effect" on their relationships with male colleagues and supervisors.

Tara Deschamps Canadian Press

TORONTO — A lawyer is asked whether a male executive should leave the door open when meeting with a woman.

A consultant's longtime male client will only take a meeting with her if someone else is in the room.

A public relations executive hears from senior business leaders who say they are shying away from mentoring young women.

The revelations relayed to The Canadian Press about being a woman in corporate Canada in recent months offer a glimpse into a male-dominated workforce that is quietly grappling with the unintended consequences of the Me Too movement.

The movement emerged late last year following a slew of sexual misconduct allegations against film industry heavyweight Harvey Weinstein and other high profile American businessmen. Allegations of inappropriate behaviour have spread to a range of sectors north of the border as well — from politics to theatre to sports — but leaders in corporate Canada have so far been left unscathed.

Still, women in business say they are facing a resulting "chilling effect" on their relationships with male colleagues and supervisors.

They reported a noticeable decline in invitations to meetings, business trips and dinners — gatherings considered invaluable for career advancement.

More importantly, they added, senior executives are increasingly hesitant to mentor female employees.

t is a development that poses a threat to women who aim to rise to the highest corporate roles at a time when two-thirds of the companies included on the TSX 60 index of Canada's largest companies did not include a single woman among top earners last year, according to a Canadian Press analysis.

Most of the dozen women who spoke with The Canadian Press were hesitant to discuss the unintended consequences of Me Too because they didn't want to detract from the progress they hope the movement will make towards improving opportunities for women.

They fear the misguided actions of some male leaders could instead reinforce the door to the old boys' club, further hindering the hard-fought progress made by the few women able to climb to the top of the corporate ladder.

Chaperones at business meetings
Lori McIntosh flew to Miami in early spring to meet with a client of 12 years, only to be told the company no longer allows its executives to take meetings alone, including with her.

The founder of business consulting and executive search company Vim and Vixin said she agreed to the new terms because "business is business" and she was determined not to let the policy stand in the way of her company or career.

"It is the new reality, but why should having someone in the room with me and the CEO hold me back?"

Toronto employment lawyer Sunira Chaudhri has fielded an increasing number of calls from her corporate clients worried about sexual harassment in their workplace — mostly from those wondering whether they need to change policies around co-ed one-on-one meetings, mentorship, office parties, business trips and dinners.

"Some asked, 'Should we be having the boardroom door open if it is just me and a female alone in a room?'" Chaudhri said.

"Holiday parties were a huge issue too and of course, business travel is big as well because often you are sitting side-by-side 12 to 16 hours a day and you are not just working together, you are eating together, you are staying at the same hotel, consuming alcohol, entertaining clients, it can make for a very intimate scenario."

While Chaudhri has seen some workplaces show concern around how they should be handling business travel or dinners after Me Too, she said many small- and medium-sized workplaces don't have the resources to formally train workers and managers around handling sexual harassment or office dynamics.

Others, she said, simply don't have the nerve.

"Forget about serious misconduct. Employers are still afraid about confronting that person that shows up at 9:05 every day, when they are supposed to be in at nine."

Lisa Kimmel, the Toronto-based president and chief executive officer of public relations and consultancy company Edelman, said she has had conversations with "a number of senior male business leaders in Canada," who told her they were shying away from providing mentorship to female subordinates "out of fear of what might potentially happen" and in an effort to "reduce their risk profile to zero."

"When I first started hearing this, I had a literal allergic reaction," Kimmel said.

"Once the anger subsided, I realized that I wanted to raise awareness around this issue because if that is the way that they feel, it means it might be a step backwards for (women) in terms of their advancements of their own careers."

To stamp out such repercussions, Kimmel started hosting discussions between men and women in Edelman's offices, in which employees were encouraged to be honest about their feelings around Me Too and ask questions about what is acceptable.

But many women questioned why conversations about drawing a line suddenly need to be had and why boundaries aren't already clear to some.

Sarah Kaplan, director of the University of Toronto's Institute for Gender and the Economy, worries that focusing on such unintended consequences will prompt people to wonder if the Me Too movement has gone too far.

In her opinion, it hasn't gone far enough.

"It is just one more way that even an effort to lead to more liberation and equality has been co-opted," she said.

"It is as if people don't understand what they shouldn't be doing. As long as you don't grab someone or proposition them, you can take someone to lunch...It is completely obvious how to be professional."
 
When I first looked at this i thought, "why are men suddenly afraid women are going to molest them?"
then I thought "if they're scared of women lying about misconduct, having an extra witness won't save them, people have lied about dumber shit"

seriously though, this seems reasonable to me. it's not going to hurt anything to have witnesses in meetings (if anything it prevents nasty secrets). In the past I've done stuff where I've been with women who wanted someone to come with them and be THEIR safety witness (such as coming with a girl who was hired as a model for photos. she didn't want to be alone with the photographer she didn't know well). having people watch your back is safety 101
 
"Forget about serious misconduct. Employers are still afraid about confronting that person that shows up at 9:05 every day, when they are supposed to be in at nine."

Time is a social construct and being on time is a tool of the patriarchy.
 
I can't blame these men for feeling this way, particularly in the thought process of leaving doors open during one-on-one co-ed meetings. A lot of proponents of #metoo become indignant at the idea of women becoming seen as a social liability in the workforce due to the movement, but I think it's because they don't want to acknowledge that people are people and a lot of people - including women - are assholes who will and do take advantage of these things to fuck everyone else over. And that there is a lot of subjectivity in what would be considered legitimately inappropriate and how to decide this. As had been predicted, some people are deciding that it's easier to just avoid the trouble by not including women.
 
I can understand both sides of the situation, but it's so hard to stop things like this from happening. Of course people are going to stop interacting with you altogether if any kind of small interaction they make can have an unintended serious consequence.
Really, there's just the major problem of it being men and women. One-on-one situtuations between them can undoubtably result in some questionable stuff happening. I guess to CEOs and high-ranking officials, just staying away from the cause is the easy way out of the problem.
There are better ways to deal with it, for sure, but improvement won't happen if we just keep being scared and avoid interaction altogether. I'd say the best way to deal with it is just having a witness to interactions between male and female coworkers, like mentioned in the article, or to just have a mic in the workplace 24/7, like a security camera, so that evidence of something happening will be available, and we won't just have to rely on the words of a supposed victim.
 
Última edición:
Are they really surprised by this? When you start throwing around rape accusation, misconduct accusation, ece against EVERYONE AT ONCE, instead of doing it sometime in the 20 years since it happened, as if you are doing it for attention, and even threw false rape accusations against the US president, are you really surprised when men become nervous at the very idea of talking with female coworkers without another male present?

:thinking:

I'm amazed it took this long.
 
"get rid of your evidence that prevents me from falsely accusing you of sexual assault so i can falsely accuse you of sexual assault"
 
Última edición:
The best part:

Sarah Kaplan, director of the University of Toronto's Institute for Gender and the Economy, worries that focusing on such unintended consequences will prompt people to wonder if the Me Too movement has gone too far.

In her opinion, it hasn't gone far enough.

"It is just one more way that even an effort to lead to more liberation and equality has been co-opted," she said.

"It is as if people don't understand what they shouldn't be doing. As long as you don't grab someone or proposition them, you can take someone to lunch...It is completely obvious how to be professional."
Emphasis mine.
 
This isn't anything new really. I think it becoming more wide spread in more industries. I think this is the law of unattended consequence in full effect. If anything you say or do that might be a bit off color or unprofessional will come a bite you in the ass years down the line. Then you either have to avoid the people that this will effect or change yourself. Most people will go for the former.
 
I'm surprised this hasn't happened earlier, honestly. Also, the article's general "well this is a problem but WHO, OH WHO COULD'VE CAUSED THIS?" vibe has me laughing at how farcical it is for them (progs) not only to create the problem and offer the solution, but to also pull the political equivalent of *whistles innocently* while they act like this problem just popped up out of nowhere and had nothing to do with them.

Sarah Kaplan, director of the University of Toronto's Institute for Gender and the Economy, worries that focusing on such unintended consequences will prompt people to wonder if the Me Too movement has gone too far.

Well I mean if you have to ask, it might be at the point that it has gone to far, but it's nice that at least she's able to recognize that it's a probl-

In her opinion, it hasn't gone far enough.

God fucking damnit.
 
This is actually a rule we have at my place of work; the male staff, if reprimanding/talking privately to a female employee, must have another female employee at least within the vicinity as a witness. Happened to me one night during a late shift... I thought it was strange considering the person in question, but it made sense when he explained it. It... kind of sucks we even need these kind of rules in the first place, when you think about it.

But better safe than sorry I guess.
 
"It is as if people don't understand what they shouldn't be doing. As long as you don't grab someone or proposition them, you can take someone to lunch...It is completely obvious how to be professional."

Tell that to the harpies that think a man looking at them or just saying 'hello' means he is raping her. And no woman has ever lied in order to get someone fired or to get themselves out of trouble (i.e. supervisor reprimanding her).
 
Are they really surprised by this? When you start throwing around rape accusation, misconduct accusation, ece against EVERYONE AT ONCE, instead of doing it sometime in the 20 years since it happened, as if you are doing it for attention, and even threw false rape accusations against the US president, are you really surprised when men become nervous at the very idea of talking with female coworkers without another male present?

:thinking:

I'm amazed it took this long.
Even having another male present won't necessarily help them. Hell, even having another female present won't help either. Some woman's going to either claim both men raeped her, or the two women will collude and both accuse the man.
 
If only there was some way that radical feninists could possibly have known this incredibly obvious consequence that they were warned about for years would come to pass. It's truly a mystery how this result everyone said would happen happened.

Even if they had known, they wouldn't have changed anything. These kinds of women want freedom without risk despite that being impossible by definition. Example: "teach men not to rape."
 
Was it this time last year that lefties were fnya-ha-ha-ing at Mike Pence for being so retrograde and backwards as to never be alone with a woman who wasn't his wife?
 
"It is as if people don't understand what they shouldn't be doing. As long as you don't grab someone or proposition them, you can take someone to lunch...It is completely obvious how to be professional."

Tell that to the harpies that think a man looking at them or just saying 'hello' means he is raping her. And no woman has ever lied in order to get someone fired or to get themselves out of trouble (i.e. supervisor reprimanding her).

They legitimately are unable to process the idea that the chilling effect is entirely based on the possibility of unsubstantiated claims. They have done literally everything in their power to make a false accusation as easy as possible and as damaging as possible.
 
"It is as if people don't understand what they shouldn't be doing. ).

Like lying, for example?

Specifically, lying about having been a victim of sexual assault?

This is the same kind of ideology-driven obliviousness that argues bodycams and dashcams are horrible violations of personal privacy, despite the fact they've uncovered dozens of false claims of police racism/abuse, and that people were LYING to get the cops in trouble for no reason other than they thought they could.... they are so invested in their narrative they will DENY REALITY because it doesn't line up with their preconceived notions, "Listen and believe, women don't lie about sexual trauma" is just as bankrupt in that regard as "All cops is racist".
 
Última edición:
"When I first started hearing this, I had a literal allergic reaction," Kimmel said.
I'm... sorry? You had a literal allergic reaction? To, what, logical conclusions? Because this is what happens when every other day at least five #MeToo articles pop up with female employees claiming they were ~*~harrassed~*~ because a male colleague patted them on the back or something.
 
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