Christian theology thread for Christians - Deus homo factus est naturam erante, mundus renovatus est a Christo regnante

Anyone more knowledgeable than I got any opinion about this?
It also doesn't change the Old Testament's argument if archeologists discover depictions of jewish imagery in pagan contexts.
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Books like Judges are full of accusations against the jewish people of mixing beliefs with pagan neighbors, with the best example being what the israelites got up to while Moses was up in Mt. Sinai: They were praising the god that released them from Egypt, but they didn't choose the right god and defaulted to pagan culture by making a golden calf.
For a contemporary example, santeria inaccurately presents Catholic beliefs despite working off the same "source material". You likewise could've had a main group of jews who stuck to the law of Moses with sub-groups that blended across cultural barriers.
 
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One thing I find somewhat funny about internet atheists denying God is the claim of Yahweh being a sky war god, despite their being some debate if Yahweh of the old Israelites and the Yahweh in the Bible are the same deity. Anyone more knowledgeable than I got any opinion about this?
When the stories of the Old Testament were being lived and written, the entire ancient Near East was polytheistic. Every nation, tribe, and city had its own patron god or pantheon of gods.
  • The Babylonians had Marduk.
  • The Canaanites had Baal, El, and Asherah.
  • The Moabites had Chemosh.
  • The Philistines had Dagon.
The early Israelites knew this, so the idea wasn't that other gods didn't exist, but that Yahweh was their God, the God of Israel, and He was more powerful than any other god. The wars between nations on earth were seen as an extension of the wars between their respective gods in the heavens. This is called monolatry: the worship of one god without denying the existence of others.

We see this throughout the Old Testament. For instance, in Exodus 15:11, after the victory at the Red Sea, Moses sings:
"Who is like You among the gods, O Yahweh?
Who is like You, majestic in holiness,"

And then in Joshua 2:8-14 where Rahab the prostitute tells the two spies that Joshua sent:
“I know that Yahweh has given you the land, and that the terror of you has fallen on us, and that all the inhabitants of the land have melted away before you. For we have heard how Yahweh dried up the water of the Red Sea before you when you came out of Egypt and what you did to the two kings of the Amorites who were beyond the Jordan, to Sihon and Og, whom you devoted to destruction. Indeed we heard it, and our hearts melted, and a courageous spirit no longer rose up in any man because of you; for Yahweh your God, He is God in heaven above and on earth beneath. So now, please swear to me by Yahweh, since I have shown lovingkindness to you, that you also will show lovingkindness to my father’s household and give me a pledge of truth, and preserve my father and my mother and my brothers and my sisters alive, with all who belong to them, and deliver our lives from death.” So the men said to her, “Our life for yours if you do not tell this business of ours; and it will be when Yahweh gives us the land that we will show lovingkindness and truth to you.”

And, over time, the idea went from "Our God is the strongest" to "Our God is the only God" which Rahab already understood, despite not being an Israelite. The "other gods" were no longer seen as weaker rivals to fight against, but as powerless idols. These are the idols the commandment against 'graven images' warns against. It was a prohibition against worshipping these false gods, which the prophets revealed to be nothing more than "wood and stone." So their theological framework evolved from monolatry to monotheism.

Isaiah 45:5-7 makes this new understanding crystal clear:
"I am Yahweh, and there is no other;
Besides Me there is no God.
I will gird you, though you have not known Me,
That they may know from the rising to the setting of the sun
That there is no one besides Me.
I am Yahweh, and there is no other,
The One forming light and creating darkness,
Producing peace and creating calamity;
I am Yahweh who does all these."

So, as you can see, revelation was progressive, this is what we call Divine Pedagogy. God met the Israelites where they were, He didn't drop the full, complex truth of Trinitarian Monotheism on a Bronze Age tribal people. He revealed Himself to them step-by-step until finally revealing Himself fully and perfectly through the incarnation of Jesus Christ.

After Christ's Ascension, the various Church Councils and Saints further deepened the understanding of this fullness of revelation. These Saints who helped clarify our faith are held in high regard, and are given the title "Doctor of the Church" which has only been given to 38 people in 2000 years. This is why it's so exciting to have St. John Henry Newman as a new Doctor, because his most famous contribution to theology was his work on the 'Development of Doctrine,' the idea that our understanding of God's truth unfolds over time under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. He perfectly expressed how the Progressive Revelation found in Scripture continues and deepens within the Church.

Because, for much of its history, the Church’s main focus was on guarding the "deposit of faith" as a precious and unchanging treasure handed down from the Apostles, which was a necessary and holy task for that time. Just like the early Israelites needed the simple, powerful idea of Yahweh as their supreme warrior God to establish their identity in a hostile world, the Church needed a strong, defensive posture to preserve the core truths of the faith against fragmentation and heresy. So its main focus was on preservation and stability of a "static" model that provided clarity when it was most needed.

But this created a new challenge over time: how could the Church explain doctrines that became clearer and more defined centuries after the Apostles? And on top of that, the Church faced heavy intellectual challenges from the Enlightenment and the Protestant Reformation: "If the faith is unchanging, why does the Papacy of the 19th century look so different from the 2nd century? Where was the Immaculate Conception in the writings of the early Fathers?" This is where Saint John Henry Newman's genius provided the breakthrough. He showed that doctrines develop authentically, not by adding anything new, but by the Church reflecting more deeply on what it already possessed. Like an acorn growing into an oak tree, the truth doesn't change its essence, but its form deepens and its meanings become clearer. This gave the Church the intellectual framework to be historically honest while staying theologically faithful, proving that development is not corruption, but a sign of life.
 
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For the man was not created for the woman: but the woman for the man.
Not gonna lie, out of everything I have read in the Bible so far, Paul is the biggest person I have some kind of one-sided beef with. Which I personally find interesting because at the same time, he's very relatable to me and, at least judging by the way I perceive his writings, seems to have a similar way of thinking in various aspects.
 
For the man was not created for the woman: but the woman for the man.
Not gonna lie, out of everything I have read in the Bible so far, Paul is the biggest person I have some kind of one-sided beef with.
It doesn't sound as basedboy when you look at it through the lens of marriage being a "metaphor" for the relationship between Christ and humanity: "For God was not created for man, but man for God".
 
Not really. Jesus can still be the Son of God without every single miracle being some magic. in fact, many would argue that coming to the realization that he is the Savior because of his charitable acts and simple lessons is a better path than "look he can do magic tricks that no one else can do he must be Gods son!!!"
None of his miracles are "magic". "Magic" is a word that specifically refers to evil spiritual acts in the Scriptures.

Furthermore, Jesus himself said that he did the miracles so that we could believe he is God.
Humble people helping others are closer to Christ than a magician that can perform a trick of turning water to wine. And a modern magician performing such an illusion doesn't mean Jesus wasn't the Son of God, nor does Jesus not performing such a trick not make him the Son of God, nor does performing such an illusion nowadays make the one doing so the Son of God.
Why are you referring to these things as "illusions" and "tricks"? God is not a trickster.
If you need magic to believe then go for it. My argument is retard Christians totally overlook the instructions Christ gave for his followers, a common occurrence and theme in his own ministry on earth, and that it might be better to focus on the lessons he taught us that we can imitate rather than going "wow-wee look at that magic trick he did, how did he do that?"
Yeah man, I'm just some backwards hick who is too stupid to believe rationally like you.
I don't really give it much thought. Same as I don't care about the bureaucracy of the Catholic church. The NT is wildly available and I've read it many times, Between that and guidance from God I feel I've got a decent enough understanding of Christs message. Not real interested in the dogma of man. In terms of historical research my aim is to gain a better understanding of the world Jesus lived in since that was millennia ago and it more difficult to relate to (the authors didn't provide nearly enough details for various reasons but its nice to find some additional context to help fill out the picture.)
Mate, if you can't even give the most basic statement of the Christian faith "much thought", I'm not sure you can claim to understand Christ's message at all.
And to be fair is this human nature, I gave a fun example of how I often do something similar. This also echo's Christs lessons as he was trying to build a community of generosity, love and empathy for one's neighbor. I've familiar with the argument that "removing even one miracle leads to Jesus not being the Son of God and the resurrection not happening" but thats a bs argument.

We know that some of these stories could've been corrupted by time, a loss of context or by the authors themselves either accidentally or intentionally. There are minor discrepancies between the 4 main accounts of Jesus's life and ministry, I don't think its that unreasonable to discuss other interpretations of specific events. Most Christians don't mind discussing such omitted details (like the specifics of Jesus being a carpenter in his early life and possibly working in neighboring cities and stuff like that.)
That depends what you mean by "corrupted". If the Scriptures are the life-giving Word of the Living God, then there's a low limit to how much 'textual corruption' one could accept.
 
Not gonna lie, out of everything I have read in the Bible so far, Paul is the biggest person I have some kind of one-sided beef with. Which I personally find interesting because at the same time, he's very relatable to me and, at least judging by the way I perceive his writings, seems to have a similar way of thinking in various aspects.
Historically everyone got beef with Paul.

Nazis didn't like him for being Jewish and having an outsized influence on the early church. Liberal Christians don't like him for his views on women and homosexuality. The whole Dutch Radical movement accused him of inventing Christianity wholesale, etc.
 
Historically everyone got beef with Paul.

Nazis didn't like him for being Jewish and having an outsized influence on the early church. Liberal Christians don't like him for his views on women and homosexuality. The whole Dutch Radical movement accused him of inventing Christianity wholesale, etc.
Being Jewish is cool if you are based. Liberal Christians are not real Christians if they side with homosexuality.

Jesus taught that the entire Old Testament points to him. On the road to Emmaus, after his resurrection, he explained to two disciples how all the scriptures spoke of him. "Then beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he interpreted to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning himself." (Luke 24:27)

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Historically everyone got beef with Paul.

Nazis didn't like him for being Jewish and having an outsized influence on the early church. Liberal Christians don't like him for his views on women and homosexuality. The whole Dutch Radical movement accused him of inventing Christianity wholesale, etc.
Mark Twain disliked him (but waifu’d St. Jeanne d’Arc so hard he spent 12 years researching a book that he considered his best work) because he thought Paul distorted Christ’s teachings.

Peter and Paul share a very unique relationship, I’d consider them the first real Christian converts (although Stephen was the first martyr for the faith). Both were horribly flawed and required divine intervention. Criticism of Paul is usually omitting context or because they want to take pozloads.
 
Liberal Christians don't like him for his views on women and homosexuality.
Criticism of Paul is usually omitting context or because they want to take pozloads.
I shake my head whenever I see woke types in the world or those who have infiltrated the church try to say Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed for "inhospitality" when the people were very clearly trying to rape the two angels who looked like human males. - They also try to act like there aren't New Testament books which call out homosexuality as well, those being as far as I can remember Mark, Romans, 1 Corinthians, and Jude.

Another way you can tell the lies of the woke crowd regarding the Biblical stance on homosexuality are lies is the etymology of the word "sodomy" itself:

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I also find it interesting how Genesis describes the landscape as this: Genesis 13:10 - And Lot lifted up his eyes, and beheld all the plain of Jordan, that it was well watered every where, before the LORD destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah, even as the garden of the LORD, like the land of Egypt, as thou comest unto Zoar.

Interesting how gay types love to live in lush tropical areas. The more things change, the more things stay the same.
 
I shake my head whenever I see woke types in the world or those who have infiltrated the church try to say Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed for "inhospitality" when the people were very clearly trying to rape the two angels who looked like human males. - They also try to act like there aren't New Testament books which call out homosexuality as well, those being as far as I can remember Mark, Romans, 1 Corinthians, and Jude.

Another way you can tell the lies of the woke crowd regarding the Biblical stance on homosexuality are lies is the etymology of the word "sodomy" itself:

Ver archivo adjunto 7722465

I also find it interesting how Genesis describes the landscape as this: Genesis 13:10 - And Lot lifted up his eyes, and beheld all the plain of Jordan, that it was well watered every where, before the LORD destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah, even as the garden of the LORD, like the land of Egypt, as thou comest unto Zoar.

Interesting how gay types love to live in lush tropical areas. The more things change, the more things stay the same.
Archeologists found a layer of ash, bones and many sulfur balls (brimstone) near the Dead Sea, where they think Sodom used to be.
 
The Wisdom of Bl. Fulton Sheen

Day 213 - Before undertaking a task great or small, before making decisions, before beginning a journey, the humble will acknowledge their dependence on God and invoke His guidance and His blessing on all their enterprises.
 
I recently talked with a local priest today on the nature of forgiveness from God, and he told me about Sirach Chapter 2. I don't often read books from the old testament (though I should), but the nature of the chapter really spoke to me about God's ever present forgiveness, and the trials Christians must face, but that God will always be there for you in your times of need. People often speak about Christ's Prodigal Son parable about forgiveness, but I feel this chapter as well really speaks about the healing nature of God and the relationship you can have with Him.
 
The Wisdom of Bl. Fulton Sheen

Day 214 - There is a world of difference between submitting to the Divine Will from sullenness and submitting to it knowing that God is Supreme Wisdom, and that someday we will know all that happened, happened for the best.
 
I recently talked with a local priest today on the nature of forgiveness from God, and he told me about Sirach Chapter 2. I don't often read books from the old testament (though I should), but the nature of the chapter really spoke to me about God's ever present forgiveness, and the trials Christians must face, but that God will always be there for you in your times of need. People often speak about Christ's Prodigal Son parable about forgiveness, but I feel this chapter as well really speaks about the healing nature of God and the relationship you can have with Him.
Sirach is a wisdom book. By Tradition it's the writings of King Solomon like how Psalms are written by King David.

If you ever get into writing anything, I would ask you read Sirach, Proverbs, and Psalms because honestly they are timeless and many times sound sick as it gets. Psalm 51 and 59 are my favorites. 51 is David asking forgiveness of his womanizing and murder or Uriah and 59 is David asking protection from Saul. They are great inspirations for writing.
 
The Wisdom of Bl. Fulton Sheen

Day 215 - There is a marvelous peace that comes into the soul if all trials and disappointments, sorrows and pains are accepted either as deserved chastisement for our sins, or as a healthful discipline which will lead us to greater virtue.
 
I find myself at a strange crossroads unable to rectify my own inadequacy. Based on The Sermon on the Mount in Matthew and from Paul's writing in Philemon we are not meant to judge or hate.
"Hate the sin not the sinner."
But I can not rectify this in my heart or mind. Am I truly meant to look at the man who kills me or the man who would rape my wife/children and forgive him? If I am not to seek justice or pass judgment then I am expected to forgive and forget?
What is the point of building anything in one's life or caring for anything if the next moment it can be taken and you are expected to do nothing about it?
It is logical to me that if a group hates me and wishes for me and my kind to be wiped from the Earth then I am to defend myself and speak out against them. But if I decry them I am going against what is lain out by Christ. If the rich create a system by which only they benefit and I am told "then go to the lawmakers and urge for change" but the lawmakers will not change for they are in league with the rich. If a group claims my Savior the Son of God to be false and that their prophet is the true way to salvation when he raped children and laid out rules to allow such am I to simply do nothing as they plan to kill me and all my fellow followers of Christ?

Is there truly a point in living a life where one strives to do right when in the end he may end up in the same glory as the man who sinned his entire life and only in his last moments repented? Am I ignorant as Jonah was to the Ninevites when God warned them and they repented?

Are we to only be doormats who question nothing and never learn from history?
 
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