US US Politics General 2: Hope Edition - Discussion of President Trump and other politicians

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Should be a wild four years.

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Current members of the House of Representatives
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Members of the Trump Administration
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Última edición por un moderador:
The best of times, the worst of times.

Trump has made clear the US is done being the moral arbiter of the world. Syria has had a new dawn. It's their time to shine if they choose. What matters is if they can live with their neighbors. Considering that Saudi Aribia was the one to ask for the arrangement, I think they can with some.
They chose to slaughter Christians just like they did in NYC, Boston, Paris, London, Madrid and all over the world. Saudi Arabia bankrolled Al Qaeda and ISIS as stated very plainly in Hillary's emails. The vast majority of 9/11 terrorists were Saudis.
 
What would you classify the 80s, 90s, 2000s, 2010s, and 2020s as?
I haven't put the same kind of thought into it and don't have (ironically) as good of a feel for the cultural shifts.

I'd say that there are clear differences between America in our little End of History that lasted for basically the whole 1990s (and then up and died). That was probably the last decade where there were still lots of good movies; movie-making really aged fine in the 70s, 80s and 90s. It was the era of the blockbuster. Music started getting boring. Politically it was classical political correctness, which was easy to ignore unlike both the Long Seventies and Clown World, as it was more just a really gay, annoying type of nannying than the demon it became. The tone of the era was very optimistic. I said End of History for a reason, Fukuyama and the Neoliberal Fuckboys thought we had already achieved the Star Trek fantasy of world government forever.

Something does change between the Long Seventies and the Eighties (TM) with the United States coming out of its malaise and finding its balls. If you want, you could say that socially the Nineties really are just a continuation of the Eighties with a changing conception of the world (from a pop culture obsessed with Soviet invasions to glorying in our own victory). One thing both had in common was that you could have, like, a million gay jokes and you could say nigger while still paling around with your Burger King Kids Klub group of friends. (Real life was never that artificially diverse, but I think there was a very real racial detente.) The whole period was one of aggression abroad and detente/restraint domestically, and prosperity. The scariest thing is the Clinton Administration going on a rampage against militias, Waco, random jerks in the woods. You start to get the first real obvious signs of Leviathan using this espionage apparatus that was basically created to fight Red Scares and Cold Wars against H'White people (besides the buck breaking of the KKK). The War on Drugs starts getting really retarded.

Then we get the Long Naughts, or let's call it Super Bush World. Eight years of that, from 2000-2012. Libtards are obnoxious shrieking faggots (when have they ever not been?). Civil liberties are the major theme of the decade due to Forever War II and libertarians are probably (?) at the height of their influence culturally and politically. The overreaches of the govt prove themselves devastatingly true in Clown World. Culture War is a thing forever, but I think it starts to take its current shapes, its current front lines, around this time. The country goes from North-South defense (fuck the Blacks) to Everyone Detente to Blue-Black detente, fuck the Reds.

When does Clown World begin? Everyone on here says 2014, but I think that's from being chronically online. I get that there are arguments that many specific bad things happened around then, especially in nerd culture. I think it's a little mistaken to start the downward spiral right with the election of Obama, and likewise it's definitely too late to put it with Trump. I'm tentatively saying 2012 because that was when Trayvon Martin (who I hear surprisingly little about, these days, compared to Mike Brown) blew upon the horrorshow of modern day anti-White race pogroms. Literally nothing from the Summer of Floyd was new, just the sheer vigor with which they enforced it on everyone. What was shocking wasn't the same warmed over talking points, but the way people were getting sacked from jobs - fucking IDEOLOGICALLY PURGED by the private sector - over it, and the way it was used to push through a wave of iconoclasm.

In Stephen King's IT there is a town of Derry that has a cycle where, at regular (but not like clockwork) intervals the eldritch demon god of the town will emerge to begin preying on the townsfolk, and in each such era its insane energy drives the town to murder and other acts of violence and dysfunction, social breakdown, at a scale that would be incredible but for that IT has the power to anesthetize the population. Crazy things happen in Derry, but nobody ever seems to notice the sociological mystery at work there. That is like what the US has been operating on for at least 200 years. The earliest time I can point to as the American Spider God Cycle is the Great Yee-Yee of 1850-1880, ish, when the South and North went deranged; the derangement even spread West, by the end, with the post-Civil War flood of frontier violence. It broke like a fever in 1877 with the corrupt bargain, high tide of the revolutionary sentiment at the Homestead Strike and victory in the Indian Wars.

Then it came stalking again in Wilsonian America, year uncertain to me but surely hitting a sort of apogee in the insanity of World War I and breaking like a fever after socialist defeat (at the hands of progressives, Progressivism was an enemy to both Socialism and Populism) at Blair Mountain, 1921, although the social sickness carried on for a long time; you could perhaps even start it with Wilson's war and argue it breaks some time into the Great Depression with moral renewal of the country.

Then the Long Seventies.

Finally Clown World. And I think the fever broke with Trump's second election; the mood has shifted in a very perceptible, but hard to explain, way. But the progress of past cycles is never undone.

The Demon of Unrest (I just stole that name for a book title) is the same creature every time. It changes its outward ideology; sometimes it masquerades as limited government, sometimes as unlimited government. Sometimes it comes from the South, sometimes from the North. Sometimes it preys on White people's worst natures, sometimes on Black people's. Sometimes it even expresses itself through both times, as I'd argue it did in the Civil War era. But the consistent thing about it is that it is the rich using sectarianism - usually ethnic - to derail populist movements and anything that threatens to encroach on entrenched power (corporate and govt). I don't think my model actually fits the Long Seventies well, compared to the War between the States, WW1 and aftermath and Clown World. Before the War between the States it is hard to defend it; maybe the desperate power-grabbing of the Federalists (Adams' attempts to play dictator, the War of 1812 bringing things to a head with these traitorous mercantilist shitbags), but I don't see the telltale signs of race war propaganda there. I suppose they hadn't figured it out yet. Federalists hadn't yet pioneered the use of race to divide, while in the Seventies it was foreign actors (Soviets) and a newcomer (Jews) to the American stage that were acting disruptive.


Edit: My silly names for it, some stolen from books I like or at least tolerate:
A Disease in the Public Mind (1848-1877)
Yankee Leviathan (1877 to somewhere around WW1 or the Progressive Era)
A Fever in the Heartland (no later than 1908 through no earlier than 1921)
Mister Roosevelt's Wild Ride (Great Depression, WW2 and Korea)
Jukebox Jubilee (the Long Fifties)
Days of Rage (the Long Seventies)
End of History (1980s-ish to 2001)
Super Bush World (2001-2012)
Scratch that, I'm going Bush World Adventures, that one's more fun, look it up.
Clown World (2012-present)

(End of History should be taken with the sardonic tone of "War to End All Wars.")

I likewise like to historiographically divide the US into three movements of itself based on its self-conception:
First America (voluntary confederacy of states)
Second America (imperial power of the North, a Euro-American nationalist state)
Third America (diverse bullshit "civic nationalist" America, starting from the Civil Rights Act and that immigration act that JFK, I think, passed, allowing non-Whites in in large numbers)

Edit: Each historical turning in America's self-conception comes from the Demon of Unrest cycle. Civil War mortally wounded and WW1 curbstomped to death First America. (Wilson kind of does it by, like I said, bringing the South into the fold... had to colonize it to pass through the first stages, but had to get its cooperation for the last stages.) Long Seventies gets us Third America.

So what do we see today? Will Clown World end with Third America solidifying, or will it prove a temporary aberration, a launching point for disunion or revival?
 
Última edición:
It's so easy to get really damn bitter about immigration in general and to say "WE'RE CLOSED!" to anyone who wants to come here. Hell, it's logical to become that bitter after the past 4 years.

That said, I'm all for doing immigration right. There's plenty of legal immigrants who appreciate America and want to assimilate more than the average American college student at this point.

The more people who actually know the dangers of communism and tyranny, the better.
 
I think it's super funny how Dems are surprise Pickachu faced everytime Trump makes a deal previously thought impossible when.

He made billions of dollars making deals

He had a hugely successful TV show revolving entirely around making deals

He literally wrote a fucking book called "The Art of Of The Deal"

Gee who would have thought this man may be highly talented at negotiating?
He's actually really stupid. He just beat the Bushes, the Clintons, the GOP, the DNC, and the federal government because he's lucky.
 
The Demon of Unrest (I just stole that name for a book title) is the same creature every time.

"Throughout recorded time, and probably since the end of the Neolithic Age, there have been three kinds of people in the world. The High, the Middle and the Low. They had been subdivided in many ways, they have borne countless different names, and their relative numbers, as well as their attitude towards one another, have varied from age to age: but the essential structure of society has never altered.

The aims of these three groups are entirely irreconcilable. The aim of the High is to remain where they are. The aim of the Middle is to change places with the High. The aim of the Low, when they have an aim - for it is an abiding characteristic of the Low that they are too much crushed by drudgery to be more than intermittently conscious of anything outside their daily lives - is to abolish all distinctions and create a society in which all men shall be equal. Thus throughout history a struggle which is the same in its main outlines recurs over and over again. For long periods the High seem to be securely in power, but sooner or later there always comes a moment when they lose either their belief in themselves or their capacity to govern efficiently, or both. They are then overthrown by the Middle, who enlist the Low on their side by pretending to them that they are fighting for liberty and justice. As soon as they have reached their objective, the Middle thrust the Low back into their old position of servitude, and themselves become the High. Presently a new Middle group splits off from one of the other groups, or from both of them, and the struggle begins over again. Of the three groups, only the Low are never even temporarily successful in achieving their aims. It would be an exaggeration to say that throughout history there has been no progress of a material kind. Even today, in a period of decline, the average human being is physically better off than he was a few centuries ago. But no advance in wealth, no softening of manners, no reform or revolution has ever brought human equality a millimetre nearer. From the point of view of the Low, no historic change has ever meant much more than a change in the name of their masters.”


-Emmanuel Goldstein, The Theory and Practice of Oligarchical Collectivism
 
Eh, I feel like "neocon" is what a lot of people use to refer to foreign policy hawks. The term neocon specifically refers to GW Bush-era Republicans who believe in "spreading democracy" through military intervention. There are plenty of people who favor US military intervention when it suits our interests, such as myself, who have no retarded ideas about "spreading democracy" whether it's sincerely-held or not. People like me simply think that the US should use its military when it's in our interests. This isn't a new idea nor is it uniquely American.
The reverse of neocon, which I rarely hear used here but is very useful - it describes one of the main influences on Trump - is paleoconservative. The paleoconservatives were genuine old school conservatives, and a big part of that was isolationism. It is not until LATE in the Cold War that warmongering because a "conservative" trait. WW1 = Progressive. WW2 = Progressive. Korea = Fucking Progressive. Vietnam = PROGRESSIVE. You have to go all the way up to Reagan to get to an aggressive president that was considered conservative. Progressivism heavily overlaps with Communism now, but it didn't start that way, it's like they grew into each other over time. You could very much be a progressive in the old-school LBJ since and be in favor of waging the Cold War.

Likewise, paleocons were genuinely concerned with states rights, which despite the cheap guffawing of modern day people was a very real thing besides just slavery. By the modern day states rights are effectively dead and not coming back. And paleocons had reservations about executive authority, they were Madisonians. Who killed the traditional American presidency? Republicans just as much as Democrats. And paleocons tended to be deeply socially conservative even while being skeptical of using state power to promote social conservatism.

Everything Nixon, Reagan, Bush the Elder and Bush the Younger were not. Peacemakers, not warmongers. Friends of local government. Strict constitutionalists. Sincerely, deeply conservative in a quietist way instead of showy, performative pricks with a million prayer breakfasts and endless cucking on core values.

I don't know the story in any depth, but supposedly (heard it many times) neoconservatism was born when a bunch of Trotskyites grew up, became "conservatives," but brought their retarded Marxist habits (including world revolution: the One True Ideology must be exported by force) into American "conservatism." Some fella, William Buckley, usually gets shat on by the types I read.

Mises Institute is a good website for paleoconservative and paleolibertarian thought. It's wingnutty, but I mean, by Kiwi Farms standards its classy. The kind of conservatives who can talk traditional American political philosophy AND ALSO bitch about the Jews sinking USS Liberty.

Edit: Pat Buchanan, from all I've ever read about him, was a wonderful paleoconservative populist Presidential candidate.
 
Última edición:
They chose to slaughter Christians just like they did in NYC, Boston, Paris, London, Madrid and all over the world. Saudi Arabia bankrolled Al Qaeda and ISIS as stated very plainly in Hillary's emails. The vast majority of 9/11 terrorists were Saudis.
And? America cannot fight wars for 1000 years over every slight. They want peace. Stay in your domain and we won't fuck with you. Trump has made this our policy. Like it or not.
Unlike his Ukrainian clone this version knew to wear a suit.
Arabs have had a fondness for suits fir a long time if they aren't in robes.
 
They aren't practically useful in combat, though.
That's irrelevant. If they want equal rights then it comes with equal responsibility, simple as that, women can die for Israel like everyone else.

Giving them equal responsibility pushes society further in the wrong direction, which is fine if you want to watch its foundation buckle, but in practical lowbrow terms, we should should simply exchange their rights back for the dignity they traded in to get rights in the first place.
There's no other option. You just need to eroded women's comfort by giving them equal responsibility and accountability as men, and let them know it's feminism's fault. Remind them of what they lost and how to get it back so they vote correctly next time.

If only the scientists in Wuhan were chuddier Covid would have just sterilized black people and then disappeared entirely.
If we're fantasizing about ideal COVID strains then somehow target fags too :story:

I'm no expert, but I don't think women work like that. A shocking amount of them are wired to enjoy being choked/slapped/restrained during coitus. Human history is overflowing with events where the men were slaughtered and the women became wives, so maternal genes which promoted submission to authority were promoted. They are biologically compatible with submission, and the natural order seems to place them in a position where being smacked is essentially the worst thing they would have to deal with in day to day life anyways, rather than, say, being crushed in a collapsing coal mine or flayed by painted natives.
What people like during sex doesn't correlate to what they like in life outside of it, that's where your psychological math is off.
 
Syria was never going to become some liberal democracy with routine fag parades in Damascus
The fact this ever became an element of American foreign policy is a travesty in of itself.
That this somehow evolved into becoming the gold standard of how effective American foreign policy in the Middle East is or isn't, is an entirely different dimension of insanity.
 
This is what enraged me about Gadaffi. Yeah he was funding terrorism here and there, but ever since he's been toppled, Libya has no central government and is no closer to freedom or democracy that the pozzed globohomo celebrates so much. Country hasn't recovered since 2011. Democracy cannot be forced on the population no matter how much you cheer it.

Edit: If Damascus cleans up its act and forms a functioning society I might have to visit some of the historical sights and stuff.
A 'functioning society' that's not a complete shithole and is reasonably safe for tourists to come tour the (usually pre-Islamic) sites in is basically the gold standard for Arab countries. It would certainly be a much better place for Syria to be in compared to the last 14 years of civil war, yes.
Trying to rehabilitate Al Qaeda that just went on a massive ethnic cleansing spree against Christians is the single worst thing Trump has done in his entire life. Far from a fan of Bibi and Israel but even they are vastly preferable to the fucks who were behind every single major terrorist attack in the West.
I hate to be the ackshually guy, but the minority targeted in the recent massacres were the Alawites (yet another Islamic sect, and the one Assad belonged to), not the Christians. If anything the new rulers of Syria seem to have been striving mightily to avoid bashing Christians too much - during the final offensive that toppled Assad, HTS famously chastised its own troops for knocking down Christmas trees and put them back up, negotiated the protection of local Christians with Aleppo's bishop Hanna Jallouf (it was even rumored they were going to make him the interim governor of that city, though that never panned out), and generally acted with far more restraint than would be expected of Islamists toward Christians. While some Christians were indeed killed in the recent sectarian battles & massacres, it's something like six confirmed Christian dead compared to 1,700-2,000+ Alawites.

It's certainly partly a PR stunt (someone like AJ must know Trump's base includes a load of conservative Christians and going full ISIS would piss them off to the point of making the recent sanctions relief an impossibility) but Christians are also, in general, far less hated than the Alawites. Now I don't like the massacres of Alawites either, but unfortunately for them, they are basically in the spot of South African or Rhodesian whites: the former ruling minority, surrounded by a majority that absolutely hates their guts (and the Assads ruled more brutally than either the apartheid regime or Ian Smith in Rhodesia) and really wants to seize all their shit too. And unlike the Boers/Rhodesians, they're waging an armed rebellion to try to regain power after losing the civil war, but it's another war they've been losing and they have no outside power able or willing to help them now.

The Alawites' best bet would've been to try to set up their own country in the western coastal area with Russian support, but for whatever reason they instead disbanded the old SAA and only took up arms again later in a much more disorganized fashion, hence the above military disaster (and massacres). Well, if they haven't all evacuated to Iran by then maybe they can hope a future president (whether Vance or his successor) will do for them what Trump's doing for the Boers before they're wiped out...
This is how it all ends?

With some Al Qaeda guy in a suit getting his hand shook like it's the 1980s all over again.

I guess that 9/11 has been forgiven.
I will say that it's rather strange and surprising watching not just any president, but a New Yorker at that, shaking the hand of an ex-AQ emir. Business and politics truly make for strange bedfellows, Mideastern business and politics, even more-so than usual (in Syria's own case the Assads and Saddam were longtime enemies, but Assad Jr. was cool with Ba'athist/Iraqi Sunni exiles to use Syria as a base after the Iraq War, doubtless including some who would ironically join AQ/ISIS). I definitely would not have expected this development in November of last year.
 
Sometimes its funny, sometimes it makes you worry for him.
Its sounds like I have both levity and kindness working for me, if not from me, even at my worst, the good Lord provides indeed.
LOLWUT.jpg
US debt is a tad shy of $37 TRILLION. We'll be lucky to clear it in 3 or 4 or 5 decades. All the tariffs and remittances in the world will hardly put a dent in it.
Good afternoon my friend Im the FED, I just printed 37, 1 Trillion dollar notes as not disallowed by the constitution, Good bye paper debt!
 
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