What conspiracy theories do you believe in? - Put your tinfoil hats on

[NoReturn]

Bonus half-formed gibberish about the American southwest-
Are there people living deep underground? A different race kept secret?

I don't know about currently, but there were - I'm certain of this - at one point two groups of people living in that region. One of which was either an almost-full-time inhabitant of the caves (or were at least in place there) before the arrival of the second group. I do not think the cave inhabitants are the same people as the cannibals.

Things we know for certain:

• The Hopi and the Navajo are genetically very close
• The Dene people and the Diné people both speak Athapaskan-language-family-languages despite the former being in Canada and the latter being in the Southwest
  
  
• The Ute, by the way, speak a language that's in the same family as the Aztec
  
  
• If we overlay the language maps and add in the Colorado River (from the Hopi origin legend) you can see there's overlap in the modern Four Corners area
  
  
• Some dates:
  • Tenochtitlan was founded in 1325AD by the Mexica, who speak Nahuatl.
  • Mesa Verde was abandoned around 1300AD
  • The Navajo began living in the Four Corners area around 1300AD (seeing a pattern?). The Utes settled in the same area also around 1300AD. You can learn more about this by looking up the "Post Pueblo Period".
  • On the other side of the planet, 1315-1317 was the "Great Famine". It was caused by a period of exceptionally cold and wet weather. The cause of the weather is still unknown but one possible explanation is the explosion of Mount Tarawera down in New Zealand in 1314 (assuming the date is correct).

If I had to make an uneducated guess. I'd say:

1. Cave people = Ant People
2. The ancestors of the Hopi arrived after the Ant People were already living in what is now the American Southwest following some event/cataclysm/disaster that caused the Hopi to leave wherever they were living previously. The cave-people were bros to the proto-Hopi.
3. The Hopi and the Navajo likely arrived in the southwest around the same time.
4. The Mexica probably passed through the same area.

Things I'm not sure of:

• What language did the Ant People speak?
• Are the Anasazi ("Ancient Enemy") the people who were living there before the others showed up?
• Are the Aztecs the cannibals? ARE THE NAVAJO? ...The Ute? It would explain why no one wants us talking about it.
• What language did the Anasazi ("Ancestral Puebloans") speak?
• Why did the Ute and Navajo retain their independent languages despite arriving in the same area at roughly the same time?
• Where the fuck did the Mexica come from?

 

[FatalTater]

Where the fuck did the Mexica come from?

Mongolia?
I have no idea, but every time I look at that culture for whatever reason, it seems awfully familiar.

 

[NoReturn]

Mongolia?
I have no idea, but every time I look at that culture for whatever reason, it seems awfully familiar.

Ok, hear me out:

The most prevalent maternal haplogroups in Mexico are A, B, C, and D.
The arrows are how they think things happened, by the way. I personally think the line for B should go directly across the Pacific because I think the people made it across long before the "official" first contact dates after 1000AD.

It's possible to get across the Pacific on boats, especially if you're a member of a civilization that is exceptionally good at going from island to island to survive. The Polynesians very very likely made a couple trips around 1100AD and brought back potatoes. They even use the same word for them.

Similarly, it's rather easy to get from areas of East Asia to the Pacific Northwest, so if they made it across (as some claim happened during the Ming Dynasty in the 1400s), then it could have happened sooner as well, and might even explain some of the stories you hear in North America from tribes talking about weirdos showing up one day to demand tribute for some king no one had ever heard of before.

I'm less familiar with the Atlantic side of things, but that one has some weird stuff as well, like an island off Spain that's easier to get to from North America than it is to reach from Europe

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NcOEc31aEqo

https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Major-surface-circulation-patterns-in-the-North-and-Central-Atlantic-Ocean-The_fig2_345774830

FURTHERMORE, going back to our timeline above, there was a period of time where the Mongol empire controlled territory that would have had plenty of access to ports that would have allowed them to cross over.

We also know they were indeed attempting sea invasions around this time period due to recorded history of the "kamikaze" incidents of 1274 and 1281 when they attempted (and failed) to invade Japan. The first attempt involved between 500 and 900 ships, and the second had a combined force of 4,400 ships.

That much naval force, and I'm to believe none of it was spent on scouting expeditions?

That being said, Middle Mongolian is pretty hard to pin down, but it would have sounded a bit like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HlagkwiEjKU

Whereas Navajo sounds like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFayFUiyv20

And Ute sounds like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73YhNl5Fbnk

And the language families are totally different, so if they did make it over during the heights of their empire, they didn't seem to leave a huge linguistic influence behind.

Spoiler: Bonus micro-conspiracy-theory

I found this while looking up those speaking clips:

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/BHgz88aRKrk

To explain: This person is claiming that the grasshopper depicted on the hill isn't a grasshopper, it's one of the Grasshopper-people (similar to how butterflies in Aztec culture were human sacrifices). Which is an interesting proposition, but I'm not sure if the part of the assertion (that this means the "real" Chapultepec was in modern-day-Colorado) is very convincing seeing as the hill in question in Mexico City looked like the drawings:

And it's not weird to have multiple things with the same name:

These are both "Ute Mountain".

 

[12345]

I was reacting more to the multifunction portal scheme: cloaca=multi egress :: mouth=multi-ingress

more a cloaca is probably worse as it's an in and an out. At least with the mouth/lungs and food and chocking, it's all supposed to just go in.

Either way wtf Evolution? Seriously.

 

[Hungry Wes Borland]

Dinosaurs.
They lived at the same time as humans.
They used to be called dragons.
Dragons were intelligent.
Folklore and legends from many cultures attest to this.

I've learned over the years to trust my intuition over conventional science or "fact," so I'm open to this to some extent it feels intuitively true to me. I understand many, most, fossils of dinosaurs are reconstructions, but that's the extent of my knowledge here. Firepill me on dinosaurs as dragons - how do we explain the 50+ million year gap between the fossil record and known human existence? Genuinely curious to know more

 

[FatalTater]

Firepill me on dinosaurs as dragons - how do we explain the 50+ million year gap between the fossil record and known human existence? Genuinely curious to know more

I wish I had more than just the crackpot theory of someone who sometimes posts when day drinking and taking sinus medicine (it me. I'm the problem) because it's interesting af to think of how prevalent dragons are in stories but there are no evidence of them?
Sure the argument can be made that they're just a symbol but if so then why are they similar in description in so many different places? Did no brave warrior slay a dragon and keep a trophy? Big lizard looking things would look cool in a display case, right?
What does the word "dinosaur" even mean again?
Oh right.
But we have bones from those things, but not dragons.
Add on how much lying goes on between science and politics and schools and it's properly depressing to try to understand the world.

 

[NoReturn]

Since it looks like TPTB really don't want people knowing or even thinking too much about history (looking directly at the Smithsonian as I type this) so I would offer up this theory-
Dinosaurs.
They lived at the same time as humans.
They used to be called dragons.
Dragons were intelligent.
Folklore and legends from many cultures attest to this.
Did humans genocide dragons/dinosaurs? Why?

Bonus half-formed gibberish about the American southwest-
Are there people living deep underground? A different race kept secret?
The Aztecs sometimes referred to themselves as "people of the sun" and made sacrifices to the sun god.
The Hopi believed there were "ant people" living underground. Are they still there? If not where did they go?

I've learned over the years to trust my intuition over conventional science or "fact," so I'm open to this to some extent it feels intuitively true to me. I understand many, most, fossils of dinosaurs are reconstructions, but that's the extent of my knowledge here. Firepill me on dinosaurs as dragons - how do we explain the 50+ million year gap between the fossil record and known human existence? Genuinely curious to know more

The most common explanation you'll get, especially as a child, is that people were digging up bones from extinct animals and saying "Oh this was a dragon" but that doesn't fully explain "contemporary" stories of dragons. That said, when I listen to the latter, sometimes it does sound like they're describing snakes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQNyoweK9ZU

Dragons appear at 12:58, where they're described as being large enough to encircle an elephant, but small enough that an elephant can crush them with its body.

They appear again at 14:28 and it's said the dragons in Ethiopia have crests

There's also a similar creature that can paralyze people "at a glance" and has a white spot on its head like a crown:

No crown, but the Monocled Cobra (India and SEA) has one:

It's possible that for a long period of time "snake" was this thing:

And "dragon" was "scary snake":

Which would also line up with the stories that talk about dragons being born from snakes.

Kind of like how we have the division between dogs and wolves despite them both being canines.

 

[Bonesjones]

My feed is FLOODED with posts about the structures under the pyramids. Not just articles about it, you’ve got fringe pages posting AI images of what is under them followed by 2 ads and then a post discussing the AI images in a “is this AI” type group.

It’s astroturfed as fuck.

Pretty much all of the random Facebook posts you see are AI generated by Indians for money, every once in a while you can see it fuck up numbers and accidently translate 1 million to 1 lakh. They are just engagement driving and if I had to guess, it's Facebook itself doing it and not outside places.

The most common explanation you'll get, especially as a child, is that people were digging up bones from extinct animals and saying "Oh this was a dragon" but that doesn't fully explain "contemporary" stories of dragons. That said, when I listen to the latter, sometimes it does sound like they're describing snakes.

History is entirely made up of idiots playing telephone. Just look at the mideval depictions of African and Asian animals, a vague resemblance to reality but no where close to the real thing. Same for the pictures of the cold immune tribes men, chances are they were just regular people with a fantastic story invented for prestige.

Also evolution isn't real because they haven't spontaneously generated new DNA in bacteria despite running hundreds of thousands of generations.

 

[NoReturn]

Same for the pictures of the cold immune tribes men, chances are they were just regular people with a fantastic story invented for prestige.

I believe it, actually. I think it was exaggerated, sure, but think of people like the Bajau (enlarged spleens), Sherpa (various altitude adaptations), and Inuit (hotter blood to extremities and more efficient omega-3 usage). There's no reason not to think the Selk'nam could have been adapted to the cold. Enough time down there and anyone who couldn't do it would have been removed from the breeding population.
If we look at photos, we can see them wearing skins, not running around naked. So yes, it's far less than other people would be wearing in that weather, but I also agree with you that it's not like they were going around in loincloths.

 

[Super-Chevy454]

Fun to see the NY Times prefers its own conspiracy theories.

https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2025/04/the_nyt_prefers_its_own_conspiracy_theories.html

https://archive.ph/kuMoF

April 1, 2025

The NYT Prefers its Own Conspiracy Theories​

By Jack Cashill

Here’s what to know,” insisted the New York Times Adam Nagourney in a lead editorial the day the JFK files dropped. “Oswald still did it.” If there was such a thing as a Confirmation Bias Olympics, Nagourney would have earned the right to represent the U.S. Reviewing and dismissing 64,000 pages of National Archives material in fewer than 24 hours is no small accomplishment even by the standards of the New York Times.

As opinion writer David Wallace-Wells reminded his readers a week later, the Times decides what is a valid conspiracy theory and what is not. Apparently, JFK theories are not. Wrote the supercilious Wallace-Wells, the JFK files “turned out to be, by the standards of conspiracy hype, a total dud.”
Although Wikipedia describes me as “an American author, blogger and conspiracy theorist,” I remain agnostic on the JFK assassination. If the files turn out to be a “total dud,” so be it. Similarly, if they indict LBJ and a rogue crew of CIA contractors, I would not be surprised.

In either case, what is eerily true is that Wallace-Wells used the same Alinskyite strategy to ridicule conservative investigators that the Times used nearly 30 years ago to defame JFK’s legendary press secretary Pierre Salinger. Salinger’s sin was to reveal the truth behind the 1996 shootdown of TWA Flight 800, a genuine conspiracy in which the Times played a critical role.
According to Wallace-Wells, “we are living in a golden age for conspiracy theory.” In the way of example, for instance, he wrote, “It is now perfectly reasonable, for instance, to believe that a novel virus that killed more than 20 million people worldwide and upended for years the daily life of billions was engineered by scientists and then released by accident, with a global cover-up improvised in the months that followed.”

 

[Althalus]

They just put something on the maps where they thought it should be

Maybe, but the actual coastline topology maps almost exactly to what’s really there under the ice . So either an incredible fluke (highly unlikely) or a very odd thing that no one really has an explanation for. The map is one of those things nobody has any decent explanation for because all possible explanations are crazy.
as for Solon, I can well believe that humanity has hit the bronze age level of society multiple times and been knocked back. It wouldn’t surprise me at all

I think the most logical explanation for the Piri Reis map is that it was a copy of an earlier map from antiquity. And in antiquity there may have been maps still surviving from even earlier times that were copied. Copies, of copies, of copies, pretty much. It's possible that in some long-forgotten era (before last Ice Age at least) there were people who sailed to a warmer Antarctica and mapped it.

---

---

I'm going to sperg for a second about a tangentially related topic. It's been briefly touched on in this thread before, but the conventional assumption of New World history is that there was nothing but stone-age Natives living in isolation prior to 1492, and anything outside that assumption is pretty much dismissed as a fluke. But there are scraps and traces of evidence that the Americas were known about, and traveled to, in antiquity.

For example, they have found ancient copper objects in Greece and the Middle East, made of a type of copper that only comes from a certain area in Michigan. Also there is an object called the "Alabama Stone" that was discovered in Alabama in the early 1800s that bears Latin writing. And, there is the story of a Welshman named Madoc Owain Gwynedd (officially considered a fairlytale) who is said to have sailed across the ocean and found a new land. In Alabama the local Cherokee Indians told stories of a "people called Welsh" who "came across the great water". According to the Cherokee, (specifically a chief called Oconostota) the Welsh came into conflict with the Natives, and built a group of fortifications whose ruins were discovered by much later white settlers.

These are only a few examples off the top of my head, but the Piri Reis map discussion brought it to the forefront because there are so many little examples and traces of pre-Colombian travels across the Atlantic, that it makes the existence of a map with Antarctica on it a little more believable.

 

[Otterly]

Henry of Orkney (?) is supposed to have got to the new world. I think people accept the Vikings did too
When you look at how incredible a bunch of sailors the polynesians were, with minimal tech and resources, it’s hard to say that humans never made deliberate long journies so early. I am fairly sure we did.
The piri reis though, a copy of a copy yes I am sure it was, but the last time the coastline was ice free was very very long ago wasn’t it? Like 40kya or something?

 

[Bruce LaLiLuLeLo]

Since it looks like TPTB really don't want people knowing or even thinking too much about history (looking directly at the Smithsonian as I type this) so I would offer up this theory-
Dinosaurs.
They lived at the same time as humans.
They used to be called dragons.
Dragons were intelligent.
Folklore and legends from many cultures attest to this.
Did humans genocide dragons/dinosaurs? Why?

Bonus half-formed gibberish about the American southwest-
Are there people living deep underground? A different race kept secret?
The Aztecs sometimes referred to themselves as "people of the sun" and made sacrifices to the sun god.
The Hopi believed there were "ant people" living underground. Are they still there? If not where did they go?

I believe dinosaurs existed in isolation till the second generation of mammals came around. A bit similar to how cave lions and mammoths survived till the times of Egyptian civilization. I don't quite believe dragons existed since the European model of a dragon is very different to the asian model, one is a winged dinosaur like thing while the other is serpentine. China and Japan in fact use snake and dragon interchangeably since both are supposed to be spiritually the same in most cases. I am very interested in cryptozoology though and I'm pretty sure either the mokele mbembe is a thing or nessie is a thing and there is at least one variant of existent apeman be it bigfoot or the yeti (less likely) or the orang pandek.

 

[NoReturn]

mokele mbembe is a thing

Interesting timing:

https://www.iflscience.com/sightings-of-the-legendary-mokele-mbembe-dinosaur-of-the-congo-are-increasing-what-is-going-on-78615

or nessie

Less likely, but only due to the size of Loch Ness. It would need more food.

there is at least one variant of existent apeman

I'm think so, too.

be it bigfoot or the yeti (less likely) or the orang pandek.

Orang Pandek seems most likely. Hell, they could even just be normal homo sapiens with genetic mutations that went off to live in the woods.

 

[Bruce LaLiLuLeLo]

Interesting timing:

Orang Pandek seems most likely. Hell, they could even just be normal homo sapiens with genetic mutations that went off to live in the woods.

Me thinks they might be able to survive cause of the tropical climate cause most animals do better in tropical climates (dinosaurs are also cold blooded). Nessie in loch ness sounds unlikely cause scotland is very cold and reptiles don't do well in the cold, generally. The Congo seems much more habitable to a plesiosaur which is what mokele mbembe is supposed to be. But the thing is they're oceanic or sea creatures, not river creatures. It's much easier to find anything which lives in rivers cause the confines are small. But given the primitivity of the congolese, there's probably something there.

Orang pandek I feel has something to do with the orangutan cause the images I've seen of the orange coat seem very similar and they both share half a name which in orangutans case means "old man of the jungle". I don't think it's anything close to regular homo sapiens, maybe a half human half ape thing at best.

 

[Althalus]

I believe dinosaurs existed in isolation till the second generation of mammals came around. A bit similar to how cave lions and mammoths survived till the times of Egyptian civilization.

When you consider that cave lions and mammoths lived until they were hunted to extinction by humans, and all the stories of people hunting "dragons" to extinction exist, it's a reasonable leap to make that connection to dinosaurs.

I don't quite believe dragons existed since the European model of a dragon is very different to the asian model, one is a winged dinosaur like thing while the other is serpentine.

If one entertains the idea of a few straggling dinosaur species surviving long enough for humans to see, it's possible (in fact likely) that any folklore differences exist because different regions had different species. But I do find it interesting that Asian dragons had a spiritual component (mostly) missing in Western dragon stories.

Also, happy page 322!



Edit: dammit I was late

 

[Bruce LaLiLuLeLo]

When you consider that cave lions and mammoths lived until they were hunted to extinction by humans, and all the stories of people hunting "dragons" to extinction exist, it's a reasonable leap to make that connection to dinosaurs.

The description of what is considered a dragon seems to conflict with what a dinosaur is. There has historically been no animal which is capable of producing fire. The only reptiles capable of flight have been pterosaurs which are closer to bats than dragons. So the European model of dragons fails right there. The eastern model of dragons can be true if you consider snakes. But again snakes cannot be of the size described by chinese or japanese literature. They've even describe centipedes of being of mountainous size which is impossible. The closest you get is something which existed during the carboniferous, arthopleura, which only grew upto 10 feet or so. That destroys the asian dragon model, which is closer to reality than the European one. For cave lions and mammoths we have evidence of their coexistence alongside the neanderthal. And their existence at the same time as egypt is through carbon dating, which is a pretty reliable source. Based on myth you can't really make logical deductions as in this case you run into a lot of contradictions. I recently read wings in the night by Robert e howard and even that describes it's flying monsters as closer to pterodactylian than draconic.

If one entertains the idea of a few straggling dinosaur species surviving long enough for humans to see, it's possible (in fact likely) that any folklore differences exist because different regions had different species. But I do find it interesting that Asian dragons had a spiritual component (mostly) missing in Western dragon stories.

There are many a dissertation on the east vs west moral Outlook and culture and stuff but I'm gonna just go with one of them. Eastern culture and shintoism by extension has something called animism, the idea that every object has an essence or a spirit. It's similar to paganistic spirit worship of the greeks (dryads, water spirits) and the native Americans (nature spirits). The dragons in chinese myth represented the fundamental forces of nature, like air fire earth water etc which is why they're large in scale and power and all that. That carried over into japanese myth a bit as well. The thing is they're not actually described as draconic in the European sense, something closer to satanic and reptilian, they're described as serpentine spirits, manifestations of elemental forces rather than living flesh and blood.

 

[NoReturn]

I don't think it's anything close to regular homo sapiens, maybe a half human half ape thing at best.

Spoiler: Cursed knowledge

Spoiler: Are you sure?

There have been recorded instances in the last 50 years of orangutans raping human females. While I do not know of any cases of hybrids, or if it would even be possible given the genetic dissimilarity, I do wonder about it for the same reason I wonder about humanzees.
Humanzees, by the way, are usually explained by saying "That child just has a genetic disorder.* Don't be racist/ablest/horrible." but one does wonder when you see things like this:

And this:

The Wikipedia page for that creature doesn't even exist in English - https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oliver_(Schimpanse)

Oliver (* ca. 1958; † 2. Juni 2012) war ein Schimpanse, der durch sein menschliches Aussehen und seinen aufrechten Gang bekannt wurde. Es gab Spekulationen, Oliver könnte eine Kreuzung aus Mensch und Schimpanse oder der Missing Link zwischen beiden Arten sein.

Oliver fiel durch seine menschenähnliche Schädelform auf. Er war glatzköpfig, hatte für einen Schimpansen ungewöhnlich spitze Ohren und einen nur wenig hervorstehenden Mund. Er lebte in Blackwood bei dem Dresseurpaar Janet und Frank Burger, die ihn als Jungtier von Händlern aus der Kongo-Region erworben hatten.[1] Sozial war er nur an Menschen, nicht an anderen Schimpansen interessiert. Er mochte es, Kaffee zu trinken und fernzusehen. 1976 hatte für ihn und seine Pflegeeltern das große Medieninteresse unter anderem weltweit Auftritte bei entsprechenden Veranstaltungen zur Folge. Eine vorläufige genetische Analyse ergab, dass er 47 Chromosomen haben könnte und so genau zwischen Mensch und Schimpanse stehen würde. Seit 1996 lebte er im Tierasyl Primarily Primates.[2] Spätere Untersuchungen ergaben, dass Oliver 48 Chromosomen hatte und ein in genetischer Hinsicht völlig normaler Gemeiner Schimpanse war.[1]

Translation:

Oliver (* ca. 1958; † June 2, 2012) was a chimpanzee known for his human appearance and upright gait. There was speculation that Oliver could be a cross between a human and a chimpanzee or the missing link between the two species.

Oliver stood out because of his human-like skull shape. He was bald, had unusually pointed ears for a chimpanzee and a mouth that protruded only slightly. He lived in Blackwood with Janet and Frank Burger, who had acquired him as a young animal from traders in the Congo region.[1] Socially, he was only interested in humans, not other chimpanzees. He liked to drink coffee and watch television. In 1976, the great media interest in him and his foster parents resulted in appearances at relevant events worldwide. A preliminary genetic analysis revealed that he could have 47 chromosomes, placing him somewhere between a human and a chimpanzee. He had been living at the Primarily Primates animal sanctuary since 1996.[2] Later investigations revealed that Oliver had 48 chromosomes and was a completely normal common chimpanzee from a genetic point of view.[1]

*Look up the case of "Augusto Dembo"

 

[Jimjamflimflam]

theory-
Dinosaurs.
They lived at the same time as humans.

Flintstones was a documentary.

The reason why Flintstone kids had black people but regular Flintstones didn't was because of a prehistoric race war.

Prove me wrong. You can't.

 

[Otterly]

Look up the case of "Augusto Dembo"

‘Cases of sexual relations between humans and chimps in the region are common.’